The Firearms Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All, I am looking for solid information and appraisal on this pistol. as I can tell, it is a flintlock, maybe 60+ cal, hand carved stock, I think walnut, small shard broken off towards the business end of the barrel.

There is only one mark that I can find any where on it, and it was at the breech on the bottom side of the barrel, and if you ask me, it is a shield with a line and a dot, but (could be seeing things) it looks like the mark is surounded by scales like a dragons head?!?...

The one screw i removed to check the barrel is pictured as well.

The action on it is very smooth, and tight, unfourtunatly, the pistol grip is busted, so if anyone knows where i could get a replacement stock that would be sweet!

Any information, particularly on the makers mark, would be a great help, Thank you
Glenn
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,303 Posts
Can't help with the mark, but is probably later quarter of 18th century or very early 19th century. I don't think it is military and value is minimal. However, replacing the stock would destroy whatever value it does have. Someone with excellent woodworking skills and a lot of patience could piece in the missing wood and then blend it in with the original wood, but that minus that, I'd glue what ever needs fixing under that electrical tape and then leave it alone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,379 Posts
FWIW, I would put it earlier than that, possibly early to mid 18th century. The gun looks good, but it was not the product of a top quality maker because the bottom of the barrel (which would have been hidden) shows such sloppy work. The best makers' work was well done even where it didn't show, and they signed their names.

Still, again FWIW, I think it is European, not middle eastern, and an antique, not a repro.

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,099 Posts
Agreed about not replacing the stock and Jim K's date and not military -also not English. The lock looks of similar pattern as the English 9" dragoon pistol ca. 1760s & side view of trigger guard finial likewise. A picture from the bottom to show the trigger guard and one of the butt might tell a little more - not that knowing more would mean much. The barrel has been shortened. Original barrel length can be estimated as 3 to 4X the length of the octagonal portion at the breech. The mark on the barrel might represent a padlock or a basket - or, seen from the other direction, a signet ring -- such things sometimes used by makers as ID back in the day.

As for appraisal, collector-wise, no interest. For a restorer, not worth restoring per-se, costs outweighing end value but maybe $200 if the lock is functional. For a wall decoration, sell the story, its history, romance, etc - value could go up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OK, great info guys, thank you, keep it comeing! The end of the barrel doesnt look as if it has been sawed off at all, or at least if it was it was done by someone that knew what they were doing. The lock, i guess you mean the "hammer" or flint holder, moves like cream, nice n smooth, cocks back in two positions and releases upon trigger pull. As for glueing the grip or repairing the stock, a profesional would definatly have fun with it as you can see with the new pictures. I have a few more...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,099 Posts
Nothing much learned from latest pix, other than more confirmation of nothing English. With the apparently very short grip, it kind of balances the short barrel which may be original as-is.

As for the broken grip, if I had it I would clean the broken surfaces of any dirt or old glue and glue it back together. If you are not experienced in fixing things, tape it up again.

If you do want to tackle the glue job, first make sure the broken surfaces fit together without a splinter or something holding them apart. Find something like a vise or clamp or bucket of sand, anything that will position the gun with the broken directly above. Wax the outside surfaces of the gun and the broken off butt, keeping the wax off the mating surfaces to be glued. The wax is to make glue that runs out easy to remove.

I use Devcon 2 Ton clear epoxy and make a batch of fine pine sawdust, mix up the glue per instructions, the add sawdust enough, stirring in, to where the mix is almost too thick to run. Put glue on both mating surfaces and carefully align the fit and press the butt in place. The gun held per above will help keep the joint from slipping. With that glue you have 15-20 minutes to adjust things to get just right. Wipe off excess glue. Leave at least 4 hour at room temp before handling

Properly done you will have a sound joint that will stand handling and look better than tape, probably not noticeable from a few feet away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Nice, ill try that. would the same go for just under the lock? i knoticed that when i pull the hammer back there is a split in the wood carving just the back side and below the lock, if you hold it to use it. Should i remove the mechanics of it befor i do the wood work?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,099 Posts
Sorry but not enuf info to know for sure about the splinter under the lock. Usually breaks below the lock are result of either shrinkage of the wood or interference from lock internal parts movment - or both.. Sometimes clearance that originallly existed vanishes with shrinkage. Some times mainspring gets off the tumbler, something breaks - whatever.

If you want to try a fix, remove the lock, mix some epoxy and apply it from the inside till you can see it ooze out. Clamp it or tape it till glue sets. Then put lock back in and carefully cock it, feeling for resistance. If you get resistance you probably need to remove wood inside or whatever is causing the resistance.. Keep going and you may break the splinter out again. Hopefully the break was from some other cause and the glue treatment will fix it.

All that is mostly shooting in the dark, which may or not actually apply or work. With that also, I'm OD & wish you well with your project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,379 Posts
Used by your several times great grandfather to fight off the Redcoats at Breed's Hill, etc., etc. Unless of course your ancestor was British, in which case he used it to help the forces of law and order against the rebels at Breed's Hill, etc., etc.

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So i got a new lead on this pistol that i would like to present for your concideration.

French, Nepolian era, infantry, 70 cal....what do you think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have not measured yet, i need to get a caliper, this was information i got from a guy that called me this morning, he said it strongly resembles the Charleville, he said that the officers would be more ornate, and that this would be an infantry gun, and the lack of proof marks would be due to rushed production during the war. I dont take this as proof posative, thats why i wanted to know if anyone had any thoughts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
It appears to be a circa 1750-60 French pistol. Nice gun, and with a little work it could be saved. Unless you are a restorer, I would just leave it alone until it can be properly restored, a bad restoration is worse than no restoration.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top