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Discussion Starter #22
This shortage is different from the last one. In 2008, we elected a far-left pansy, so people loaded up until they felt like Obama wasn't really going to be able to do much to us. This time, we had a totally irrational coronavirus panic, and it fed into a BLMtifa panic, which segued into a Demented Joe panic.

Things started to ease up between the coronavirus and BLMtifa panics, and then people reacted to the sight of racist terrorists tearing up our cities, so the supply tightened up again.

Am I a hoarder? Maybe. I've bought maybe 15,000 rounds of ammo this year. When things started going sideways, I decided to start working on an ammunition savings account, to get me through years of deprivation. I don't think I'm in the same class as people who bought pallets of ammo, but maybe I am. Anyway, I can go a couple of years without any real problems.

I need more ammo than most people. Many hunters can get by with a hundred cartridges a year. I like shooting to improve my skills, and that takes a lot more lead.
 

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Between powder, lead and primers and swaging supplies...I don't know how many years it would take me to use it all. Probably more than I have left....and I hope that's at least 20!!
 

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I see lots on stocking up ahead of time and that's great. IF you can afford to do so. But for many people living paycheck to pay check, you don't have an extra $10 to 20 to through around. Many do a stock up at tax time, that's when they get a new (used) gun, or if they find a good deal a new ... well, new gun. Or maybe a reloading press and a couple Lee dies, cause lets face facts Lyman and RCBS are just freaking expensive. However for many the Asian chest cold hit and ammo and guns disappeared before those waiting on their tax returns even had a chance.
 

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For many, indeed most, there's a time element involved. We didn't go out and stock up all at once. Good grief, who could unless you were a millionaire and especially at today's prices? It's a life time's accumulation. A little here, a little there, a deal or two at past gun shows, friends or family who decided to stop loading, others who knew we loaded and told someone we might be interested in buying their accumulation, or part of it and, estate sales. I have 2 or maybe 3 pieces of loading equipment I bought new. The sizer/luber I use most is from the 1940's or maybe 30's. My old Belding & Mull powder measure is from the 30's and still more accurate than any RCBS, Lyman and definitely Lee I've ever used. Some of the powders I have and use haven't been available in years and carry price tags of $8.00 to $12.00. The last lead I paid for was 20 cents a pound. I understand if one buys a hard alloy today, it's $2.00 a lb. I finally used up the last of my Winchester LP primers in the red and yellow boxes, priced at 68 or 78 cents a hundred, and those haven't been made since the 70's I think. I think I have a few cans of black powder that still say Gerhardt-Owen....now known as GOEX and one that says DuPont...and I don't remember when DuPont got out of the BP making business. According to your profile I'd already been loading for 10 years when you were born. That isn't some kind of a....an....a pointed comment, just an observation that time is on the side of a lot of guys...not mine so much anymore.
 
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As I've stated multiple times-There are at least 3-5 million people that have NEVER owned(or cared about)firearms that bought in the past 4 months---they have NO idea what ammo used to cost....I talked to one-he thought 30$ for 20 200grBO was a good deal......It will be a year at least to stabilize.
 

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I long for the days when ammo prices and availability were not tied to politics. I remember how I did not think twice about shooting 200 rounds of .45acp at an IDPA match. A couple boxes of 9mm for plinking, no problem...... I don't do that anymore! It's not that I don't have the ammo, it's more about not knowing what the replacement cost and availability will be if my supply gets low.
 

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A check on a popular auction site has over 3,400 auctions for 9mm trending at around $1.00 a round.
I was never a fan of 9mm preferring .45apc. Two days ago I started reloading, I have two .50 cal cans of empty brass one commercial, one military. I am estimating 3,000 cases in each.
I have 4,000-5,000 heads I bought about 30 years ago, as primers, some 1000 piece boxes marked $13.99 Got 500 loaded so far.
You never how much ammo you have until you move.
 

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I don't know who to trust regarding ammo price and availability. Since I'm not a cop, it's not unlawful for a supplier to lie to me or to lie to any consumer about manipulating the market.
 

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There are those who will take advantage of a crises.
Look at the price of hand sanitizer. It was $1.00 a bottle last year now $4.00- who knows how high it will go, same for masks.
We need to buy low, maybe sell high, does that make us a price gouger?
I bought AR-15 mags for $7.00 if I sell them for $15 .00 am I a gouger?
I am not forcing any one to buy them.
Not that I will sell any. (right now)
 

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Garandaholic
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I long for the days when ammo prices and availability were not tied to politics. .
Blame the politicians.
They were never connected because we never had one side that wanted to ban them.
 
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For many, indeed most, there's a time element involved. We didn't go out and stock up all at once. Good grief, who could unless you were a millionaire and especially at today's prices? It's a life time's accumulation. A little here, a little there, a deal or two at past gun shows, friends or family who decided to stop loading, others who knew we loaded and told someone we might be interested in buying their accumulation, or part of it and, estate sales. I have 2 or maybe 3 pieces of loading equipment I bought new. The sizer/luber I use most is from the 1940's or maybe 30's. My old Belding & Mull powder measure is from the 30's and still more accurate than any RCBS, Lyman and definitely Lee I've ever used. Some of the powders I have and use haven't been available in years and carry price tags of $8.00 to $12.00. The last lead I paid for was 20 cents a pound. I understand if one buys a hard alloy today, it's $2.00 a lb. I finally used up the last of my Winchester LP primers in the red and yellow boxes, priced at 68 or 78 cents a hundred, and those haven't been made since the 70's I think. I think I have a few cans of black powder that still say Gerhardt-Owen....now known as GOEX and one that says DuPont...and I don't remember when DuPont got out of the BP making business. According to your profile I'd already been loading for 10 years when you were born. That isn't some kind of a....an....a pointed comment, just an observation that time is on the side of a lot of guys...not mine so much anymore.
I get this and started gathering things slowly over the years garage sales and flea markets thrift stores, i have several boxes of Alcan Bluestreak fiber and cork wads, Alcan overshot cards and nitrowads, I picked up for free at a local church owned thrift shot they refuse to sell anything gun related, with the exception of hunting clothing. i recently( summer 2019) picked up a MEC Versamec press for $15 at a garage sale. I have several vintage roll crimpers and such. To be honest my favorite press to reload on is my Lee load all junior. I have a Mec 600 jr specifically set up for .410 which i won on auction for $125 came with tons of extras including dies for 16, 20 and 12 gauge. but i had the money back then before i was forced to retire due to health.
 

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The last handgun I bought was a Glock in 40 S&W, didn't even think about ammo. I ordered a few boxes from Bass Pro which took 3 months to get. A little later went to Scheels and found that they had it cheaper, under $15.00 for fifty when bought by the hundred. I buy a couple boxes each time I go in and have over 1000 rounds now all at reasonable price. We just had a Home of Economy open up in town and their ammo is only a little higher then Scheels.
 

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Keep in mind one little fact...5 million BRAND NEW never before gun owners since Covid. And that’s just NICs checks! How many private purchases? New shooters/owners need ammo, and have no knowledge of “normal” prices. They bought a new 9, they need a box of 9. Period. At ANY price!

Here’s hoping those 5 million were former Democrats who now “get it” and will vote Trump!
 

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The guy at the show who was selling Win Small Pistol and Small Rifle Primers at $100/1000 I laughed at, good thing I had my mask on. But amongst his table of ammo I found two boxes of .30-30 at $15 each, one a box of Remington 150s I bought at Walmart a month ago for $16.99, so I bought it. The other a box of Federal 170s I didn’t buy. The next day I decided to check if he still had the Federals, he did and I bought them too...and noticed he was sold out of his $100 primers! The only other guy at the show that had the same primers was asking $149/1000! He still had some left, but still he sold some...funny the ONLY reasonable pistol ammo I saw was a guy with a ton of Fiocchi 9x18 Makarov for $17.99/50 who wasn’t selling any! I’m kicking myself I didn’t buy any, I have a Baikal IJ-70 and a CZ-82. I can’t believe I didn’t buy 5 or 6 boxes! What was I thinking!🤨
 

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Two good long time friends and I a number of years ago looked into commercial ammo manufacturing. We had decided that the liability insurance was to high and would consume to much profit, so we abandoned the idea, but I still keep an open eye and ear to what is going on in the commercial ammo business. Raw materials was brought up and it is one aspect that can affect an ammo manufactures profit because of the fluctuations in copper prices. As most will know that the great majority of jacketed bullets are made of copper and 70-80% of the brass cartridge case is copper along with the primer cup and anvil. When copper prices go up the ammo manufactures loose profit in the short term. When world wide demand goes up and stabilize at a higher price, then ammo manufactures will have to follow suit and raise their prices or go out of business. Keep in mind that copper is traded daily on the open market and electrical devices are a major consumer of it.

Another ammo component consideration is the gunpowder manufactures. Hodgdon as an example has some of their gunpowders made in Australia where a dock workers strike has back logged shipments. Because of restrictions that most shipping ports have on birthing ships with dangerous cargo, only so many are allowed in port. So a ship that mite be commissioned to transport gunpowder mite sit anchored any were from a few days to weeks before it is allowed to birth. Look at what happened in Beirut, Lebanon as example. In North America there are only a handful of gunpowder manufactures (I.E., Olin, General Dynamics, Alliant, IMR). Of these producers they supply many of the name brands that are supplying the ammo manufactures and the hobbyist consumers, and right now is by far the highest demand for factory ammo and components by civilians in recorded history.

So the ammo and component manufactures are at an all time high production and are trying to keep all their customers supplied and happy. So to those who procrastinated, well they will have to be diligent and search daily for what becomes available when it becomes available. As a side note, there are apps that can locate ammo and components. If any body wants, they can PM me for the name of the one I use.
 

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My wholesalers raised there prices saying the makers raised there prices to them.
I just put some ammo in a local auction house to see what people would pay for it and WOW!!!!!!
3 boxes of .22 went for $45 and ALL the other ammo I put in went for over 3+ times it's normal price.
The guns I put in went for over 2 to 3 times there value.
People are freaking out and the bidding was steady for the last hour of the auction.
I was joking with my wife about putting the ammo I have up to pay off my house.
No I do not feel bad about it because it is a auction and if they want to pay too much for it it is there choice.
 

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My wholesalers raised there prices saying the makers raised there prices to them.
I just put some ammo in a local auction house to see what people would pay for it and WOW!!!!!!
3 boxes of .22 went for $45 and ALL the other ammo I put in went for over 3+ times it's normal price.
The guns I put in went for over 2 to 3 times there value.
People are freaking out and the bidding was steady for the last hour of the auction.
I was joking with my wife about putting the ammo I have up to pay off my house.
No I do not feel bad about it because it is a auction and if they want to pay too much for it it is there choice.
I have no problem with people making a good profit from an auction. You didn't set the price, the bidders did. I have a problem with the retailers that try to take advantage of people.
I know, someone is going to come back with "you have the right to refuse to buy".
 

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Garandaholic
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I have no problem with people making a good profit from an auction. You didn't set the price, the bidders did. I have a problem with the retailers that try to take advantage of people.
I know, someone is going to come back with "you have the right to refuse to buy".
That's an interesting distinction to draw.
The buyer always sets the final selling price whether at a store or in an auction.
Everybody that walks by a box of ammo on the shelf and doesn't buy due to price didn't bid that high. Someone who walks up and pays the price did bid that high and was actually prevented from bidding higher due to their being a set price.
What's your opinion of an auction with a buy it now price?
Would you be offended if Goofy just took the ammo he auctioned and pasted a price tag on it for the exact same amount and set it on the shelf?
Please know I'm not trying to attack your position, I'm trying to understand how people think.
 

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That's an interesting distinction to draw.
The buyer always sets the final selling price whether at a store or in an auction.
Everybody that walks by a box of ammo on the shelf and doesn't buy due to price didn't bid that high. Someone who walks up and pays the price did bid that high and was actually prevented from bidding higher due to their being a set price.
What's your opinion of an auction with a buy it now price?
Would you be offended if Goofy just took the ammo he auctioned and pasted a price tag on it for the exact same amount and set it on the shelf?
Please know I'm not trying to attack your position, I'm trying to understand how people think.
As I said, in the store or on line with a "buy it now" option, I can just pass on by. If I'm in an auction, I have the choice to continue bidding or drop out. If I choose to keep bidding and end up paying 4 times what the item is worth, that's on me, not the seller. I don't like a price in a store, I have the choice to pass it up. If I feel they're gouging, I have the option to boycott that store.
 
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