Noreen BN36 30-06: Buyer Beware

Discussion in 'Feedback Forum' started by Alaska444, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    I regrettably fell into the spell and allure of a semi-automatic 30-06 in AR type platform and bought a Noreen Firearms BN36 30-06. Sadly I have had nothing but problems with this expensive rifle and fear it could end up a total loss.

    First time at the range, the firing pin fails to strike after about 15 rounds which resolved with a couple of drops of CLR. Then the last two rounds would not load and the side charging handle loosened with each round of shooting. Noreen sent me a new charging handle and new magazine spring. However, since this was the very first magazine spring I ever changed, I reversed one of the inner base plates on reassembly making the the bolt fail to engage properly. The owners manual had no diagram so it was just my best guess and my 50-50 chance was wrong.

    I contacted Noreen asking for a new magazine and they stated it sounded as if more was wrong with it than the magazine since the shell would not eject because the bolt was impeded by magazine push up against it when cycling. At this point other than the issues above, it functioned well.

    They sent a shipping label for FedEx and I sent the rifle to them. It returned without any written evaluation at all. I Sent off an email and a few days later, they sent me a one paragraph email stating they found the reversed magazine plate and that they had had found some burrs on the feeding ramps and they "smoothed" them out.

    However, when I tried to cycle a live round it did not cycle properly as before I Sent it to them. I took it to a local well qualified gunsmith at the 2010 shot show gun range of the year and he test fired the rifle finding it now jams in the tenth round which it did not do previously. He also noted an "unprofessional" appearing deburring of the feed ramps leaving worse burrs and Dremel marks all the way down into the aluminum reciever. He stated this will adversely affect any potential resale value.

    I took it to a second gunsmith who also test fired it and once again it jammed on the tenth round of a 10 round magazine. They found that the headspace was also short with a GO measuring gage. They noted the magazine spring is still too weak with the last round.

    Both did a write up and both recommended I get my money back. To that end, I wrote a detailed and objective letter and then attached the gunsmith reports and sent it to Noreen Firearms certified with return receipt.

    Now Noreen is accusing me of "tampering" with the magazine, and multiple gunsmiths have "disassembled" the rifle contributing to my current problems because they allegedly don't understand the Noreen product. In fact, the only disassembly was removing the upper from the Lower receivers to better view the breech and feeding ramps. They have insulted me and my gunsmiths in email replies and stated the rifle functioned perfectly when they returned it to me and they have a videotape showing it functions perfectly at the factory and good luck in court with that videotape.

    They will not pay the shipping costs to re-evaluate the rifle and if they don't find anything "wrong," I doubt they will pay to return it. That would be over $200.00 more out the door and I already paid nearly $1750 For this disaster.

    Not sure where to take it from here but the reply to my request for a shipping label was that was my responsibility and if I Don't ship it, they state I will void the warranty which it is still covered within the first year.

    Any thoughts? I HATE dealing with lawyers but these folks have not kept their promise of a product free of "material and workmanship" defects. In any case, Buyer Beware with this company. Yup, and some will say that with the prior known problems I should have been aware already, but I fell in love with the concept of a 30-06 in AR platform so mea cupa.

    If you wish to say I shield have known better, you are right but that is not helpful to me or others who may be seduced by their slick videos and ads.

    Thank you in advance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  2. 68c15

    68c15 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Watching and hoping it turns out good for you.
    The concept sounds enticing but thankfully my budget doesn't allow one
     
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  3. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    I will head over to the gun store/sports store where I have been a good customer for several years and show them how they are treating me. I will also find out how much the local gunsmith would charge to get it functional.

    Cut losses, or press on. Not sure at this point, but beware dealing with this company.
     
  4. CHW2021

    CHW2021 Well-Known Member

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    Where did you purchase this gun? Any dealer should be of some help to you.

    Ask them for a name of a "approved" gunsmith to do a 3rd party report or demand arbitration, there should be recourse for a defective product;; the price s well worth filing a suit (you can do it with online help) that they will have to reply to.
     
  5. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    alaska444:

    While the basic product may have been flawed (??), it seems pretty typical that manufactures no longer employ real gunsmiths to do their assembly and repair work. They teach these people only what they need to know and pay them accordingly.

    A younger friend of my adult son worked a couple years as an auto mechanic, drove a service truck for hazardous waste product collection, and owned his own tool truck. He moved to the south and was turned into one of these assemblers of premium 1911's. He had no experience at all in guns and I believe he did not even own any. He did fine but If I had to send one of these expensive guns back for repairs I think I would not want him repairing it. Give me a college trained gunsmith (two year residence program in several junior colleges around the country). I have been told S&W is the same and I suspect so is Ruger and others. So this is how we get to where this 30-06 AR is now.

    What to do now? Rather than kiss off you $1700 investment, ship the gun back to them to fix. It is their mistake not yours. Start a documentation process of emails and any correspondence with letters of explanations in detail and time dated. Make a complete story with evidence of their incompetence and poor product. If they fail again to fix it then file a lawsuit. You may gain some traction by hinting this is their last chance to get it right before you see them in court but only hint at it. Don't threaten or they may just drop the whole thing and leave you high and dry with court your only option. You could try to find someone who would take the gun as is as a project but your loss would be substantial.

    On reading your post I was not aware anyone was commercially making 30-06 AR's. Recently I talked with a local competitor/gunsmith who builds competition gun for a living. He had just finished a 30-06 AR by stretching a 308 version. He cut and welded in pieces to make the mag well longer. He said it performs well. Someone like him surely could get your 30-06 AR working if it is not too far gone.

    I really don't see the advantage of a 30-06 over a 308 in any gun type. If you read all the reloading manual, the ballistics are virtually equals. I think the 308 allows more pressure so the performance is pretty equal (not more than or even 100FPS difference). 308 AR are plentiful by many manufacturers (mine is by S&W). That would have been a better choice up front but we learn from our mistakes. Thanks for the heads up on this less than stellar 30-06 AR product.

    LDBennett
     
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  6. gvw3

    gvw3 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I know after reading this I would never buy anything form them.
     
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  7. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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  8. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks but if I end up going to a lawsuit over this issue, making public derogatory statements on social media would not help my case at all but I did think about it for a couple of minutes the other day. I have actually been on their FB site a cop,e of times.

    As far as making or breaking a company. They will do that on their own in the end.
     
  9. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you LD.

    First, if anyone salvages the gun, it will be me first.

    Second, I already took the gun to the gunsmith recommended by the sporting store and they are very competent.

    Third, I took the gunsmith reports to the sporting store and showed them to the manager who is also the person that special ordered the rifle for me last year.

    My next step is to print out all of my emails with replies and all my documentation and bring the rifle in so he can see the type of company he is dealing with and to see if they wish to intervene.

    I have all our meals and responses as well as the letters which were sent certified with return receipt. I did not document my phone calls but I remember who I spoke with, well I was given first names. So, documentation is fairly decent.

    And yes, I will take your advice and send it back to them.

    I got s standard letter online showing how to write a warranty letter and it recommended putting a time limit I. Expected resolution between us "before bringing in a third party." You are right, it could be arbitration and not a lawsuit.

    They have come back swinging at me instead of seeking a resolution which will fit into my complaint of unprofessional work and customer service if it should proceed to a lawsuit eventually.

    Thank you for your well thought out recommendations.

    As far as 308 vs 30-06, we have griz in our woods so I want to have 220 gr as a back up. Simply put, 308 is never mentioned as adequate for stopping griz and 30-06 with 220 gr is considered I. Just about every article and book I have read on the issue to be the minimum. That was why I jumped at the 30-06 in this platform.

    Sadly, if I resolved the magazine issues, the gun performed fairly well other wise and deburring the small burs that were present before and perhaps increasing the headspace by about 1 mm would have been the only work needed. But with the unprofessional Dremel work on the feeding ramps, they have told me this harmed my resale values. That is the biggest reason I am asking for a refund at this point and would be satisfied if they gave me a new rifle back and start over with a new 1 yea warranty. However, I would never send it back to them for any of these issues again.
     
  10. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to argue with you but I just looked up 30-06 and 308 loads for 200 grain bullets and there is much less than 100 FPS difference. Barrel length could make up that difference. If it is 220 grain bullet you want then specific a 1 in 10 twist rather than the more normal 1 in 12 for older 308's. There is less powder capacity in 308 but it seems to be more efficient to very nearly match 30-06. If we were talking 243 vs 30-06 or 30-30 vs 30-06 and bears you'd have a point but I really don't think the bear will notice 100FPS less velocity. But hey, what do I know?

    LDBennett
     
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  11. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, won't argue at all with you and yes I have seen and reviewed the ballistics between 308 and 30-06 and you are right, it usually is only about 100 fps difference. So no argument, it just came to personal preference but there are many, many more good choices for the 308 with well respected gun makers.

    If I am able to get my money back from this fiasco, that is an option I have considers and may go that route at some point in time.
     
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