Obama redefines freedom.

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by satellite66, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. satellite66

    satellite66 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    Central NJ
    "Oh yeah ... I'm perfectly happy to tackle this one.

    First of all ... the very premise of the question portends great danger. Sorry ... didn't really mean to use a word like "premise" here, but then again people who listen to talk radio are generally higher educated than the norm. You throw a word like "premise" to a normal gathering of government-educated myrmidons and you're going to get some mighty interesting stares.

    So what IS the premise of the president's question? The premise is that we MUST, in fact, balance our freedoms with some mandate that we take care of one another. that we must balance our freedom with our need to "look after one another."

    This is a delicate subject, I know. Once you begin to question this premise it is child splay for your detractors to say "So, you don't care about other people?"

    Let me present you with a little "look after one another" scenario and see how you respond:

    You're walking down the street with your friend. We'll call him Barack. As you're walking and chatting you notice a pathetic-looking man sitting on the sidewalk and begging for money. Barack pulls out a twenty and gives it to the man. Good for Barack. Barack then looks at you and says "Well?"

    "Well what?"

    "Aren't you going to give this man some money?"

    "No, I'm not. I don't have any to spare right now. I have my own family to look after."

    "So .. you don't care about the less-fortunate?"

    "Don't give me that less-fortunate nonsense. This guy is here because he's a drunk. That wasn't a matter of luck, that was the inevitable result of his own life's choices."

    "Well, I think you should give him some money."

    "Sorry ... it's a free country. I worked hard for this money and I'm free to make the decisions on how I will spend it."

    "Not any more," responds Barack, pulling out a gun.

    Barack then points that gun at your head and tells you that, whether you want to or not, you are going to hand over some of your property to this man. Barack has the gun, he has the legal right to use it .. your freedom's be damned. Your property rights stop where the government decides someone needs to be "looked after."

    There's another more subtle premise at work in Obama's comment. Apparently he thinks that the only way Americans will "look after one another" is through the processes of government. Private charity has always been more effective at taking care of those truly in need. It was government, not private charity, that chased the fathers out of the homes of countless welfare families. It was government, not charity, that created an mass chaos on Father's Day in most urban areas.

    So .. the answer to President Obama is this: "You need to correct your premise, Mr. President. You don't balance freedom against our need to look after one another. Freedom is paramount. When people use their freedom to make the wrong choices and end up in need, they must rely on the private charitable efforts of individuals, service organizations, churches, synagogues and mosques. Once you have a government that is powerful enough to seize property from one individual solely for the purpose of transferring it to another .. freedom is in grave jeopardy.

    But then I didn't have to tell you that, did I?" Neal Boortz

    Watch video
  2. 45nut

    45nut Well-Known Member

    Jul 19, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    Myr⋅mi⋅don [mur-mi-don, -dn]
    –noun, plural Myr⋅mi⋅dons, Myr⋅mid⋅o⋅nes  /mɜrˈmɪdnˌiz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mur-mid-n-eez] Show IPA .
    1. Classical Mythology. one of the warlike people of ancient Thessaly who accompanied Achilles to the Trojan War.
    2. (lowercase) a person who executes without question or scruple a master's commands.


    While I enjoy perusing grandiose verbosity as much as the next guy, the above defined word was outside of my normal vocabulary. I thought I might post the definition for the rest of the unwashed masses! :eek: :D

    I agree with your example and definition of Obozo's redistribution plans.

  3. Islandboy

    Islandboy New Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    Off the right coast
    Absolutely Satellite, on the money.
    Obo wants the productive to immolate themselves for the sake of government largess.
    Voluntarily madated in fact.
  4. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Dec 20, 2008
    West Tennessee
    My opinion on this is pertinacious, so I will refrain from promulgating it to the proletariat.
  5. Carne Frio

    Carne Frio Well-Known Member

    Aug 28, 2008
    Near Fairbanks
  6. TheGunClinger

    TheGunClinger Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Aug 3, 2008
    SW Florida, land of NO snow!
    Hmmm. As I view your pontifications I realize that my vocabulary is lacking, BUT my pernuncication and my enuncication is flewless. Hope I didnt make a grammericle error!
  7. bcj1755

    bcj1755 New Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    A wretched hive of scum and villiany
    eye gajeeated frum hi skool:p:D
  8. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

    Jul 11, 2007
    Jackson County West Virginia
    We the people of the United States are and have always been the most generous of people that ever lived on the earth. We do not need a politician or dictator telling us when to give to those less fortunate. We all allow our circumstance and conscience dictate to who, when and how we donate to those less fortunate.

    Neither a politician or a piece of paper gives us freedom. Freedom was given to us by the grace God in the garden of Eden. It is how we use that freedom and the choices that freedom that is defines who we are as a people and how as an individual you are greeted by God in the end of times.
  9. SaddleSarge

    SaddleSarge New Member

    Aug 24, 2008
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] Can't add to that. ;)
  10. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Dec 20, 2008
    West Tennessee
    Seriously, Satellite66, GREAT post!

    Note this part in particular:

    There's another more subtle premise at work in Obama's comment. Apparently he thinks that the only way Americans will "look after one another" is through the processes of government. Private charity has always been more effective at taking care of those truly in need. It was government, not private charity, that chased the fathers out of the homes of countless welfare families. It was government, not charity, that created an mass chaos on Father's Day in most urban areas.

    A great example of this is a comparison of the Red Cross with the Salvation Army.
    While both are charitable organizations, the Red Cross is the OFFICIAL Government Relief Agency. They are the agency the Fed uses when they release funds to an area that has been declared an official disaster area. They are the ones who take the money and dole it out to those that have suffered losses.
    Meanwhile, the Salvation Army has no government connections at all.

    Compare the two groups as regards waste.
    Compare the two groups as regards complaints and problems.
    Compare the two groups as regards salaries paid to their managers.

    When the Fed gets involved, things go to heck in a handbasket.
  11. desertgoldman

    desertgoldman New Member

    Sep 18, 2009
    Not Yours To Give

    Col. David Crockett
    US Representative from Tennessee

    Originally published in "The Life of Colonel David Crockett,"
    by Edward Sylvester Ellis.

    One day in the House of Representatives a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose:

    "Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him.

    "Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

    He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage, and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few votes, and, of course, was lost.

    Later, when asked by a friend why he had opposed the appropriation, Crockett gave this explanation:

    "Several years ago I was one evening standing on the steps of the Capitol with some other members of Congress, when our attention was attracted by a great light over in Georgetown. It was evidently a large fire. We jumped into a hack and drove over as fast as we could. In spite of all that could be done, many houses were burned and many families made houseless, and, besides, some of them had lost all but the clothes they had on. The weather was very cold, and when I saw so many women and children suffering, I felt that something ought to be done for them. The next morning a bill was introduced appropriating $20,000 for their relief. We put aside all other business and rushed it through as soon as it could be done.

    "The next summer, when it began to be time to think about election, I concluded I would take a scout around among the boys of my district. I had no opposition there, but, as the election was some time off, I did not know what might turn up. When riding one day in a part of my district in which I was more of a stranger than any other, I saw a man in a field plowing and coming toward the road. I gauged my gait so that we should meet as he came to the fence. As he came up, I spoke to the man. He replied politely, but, as I thought, rather coldly.

    "I began: 'Well, friend, I am one of those unfortunate beings called
    candidates, and---‘

    "Yes I know you; you are Colonel Crockett. I have seen you once before, and voted for you the last time you were elected. I suppose you are out electioneering now, but you had better not waste your time or mine, I shall not vote for you again."

    "This was a sockdolager...I begged him to tell me what was the matter.

    " ’Well, Colonel, it is hardly worth-while to waste time or words upon it. I do not see how it can be mended, but you gave a vote last winter which shows that either you have not capacity to understand the Constitution, or that you are wanting in the honesty and firmness to be guided by it. In either case you are not the man to represent me. But I beg your pardon for expressing it in that way. I did not intend to avail myself of the privilege of the constituent to speak plainly to a candidate for the purpose of insulting or wounding you. I intend by it only to say that your understanding of the Constitution is very different from mine; and I will say to you what, but for my rudeness, I should not have said, that I believe you to be honest.
    …But an understanding of the Constitution different from mine I cannot overlook, because the Constitution, to be worth anything, must be held sacred, and rigidly observed in all its provisions. The man who wields power and misinterprets it is the more dangerous the more honest he is.'

    " 'I admit the truth of all you say, but there must be some mistake about it, for I do not remember that I gave any vote last winter upon any constitutional question.’

    “ ‘No, Colonel, there’s no mistake. Though I live in the backwoods and seldom go from home, I take the papers from Washington and read very carefully all the proceedings of Congress. My papers say that last winter you voted for a bill to appropriate $20,000 to some sufferers by a fire in Georgetown. Is that true?’

    " ‘Well, my friend; I may as well own up. You have got me there. But certainly nobody will complain that a great and rich country like ours should give the insignificant sum of $20,000 to relieve its suffering women and children, particularly with a full and overflowing Treasury, and I am sure, if you had been there, you would have done just as I did.'

    " ‘It is not the amount, Colonel, that I complain of; it is the principle. In the first place, the government ought to have in the Treasury no more than enough for its legitimate purposes. But that has nothing with the question. The power of collecting and disbursing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be entrusted to man, particularly under our system of collecting revenue by a tariff, which reaches every man in the country, no matter how poor he may be, and the poorer he is the more he pays in proportion to his means. What is worse, it presses upon him without his knowledge where the weight centers, for there is not a man in the United States who can ever guess how much he pays to the government. So you see, that while you are contributing to relieve one, you are drawing it from thousands who are even worse off than he. If you had the right to give anything, the amount was simply a matter of discretion with you, and you had as much right to give $20,000,000 as $20,000. If you have the right to give to one, you have the right to give to all; and, as the Constitution neither defines charity nor stipulates the amount, you are at liberty to give to any and everything which you may believe, or profess to believe, is a charity, and to any amount you may think proper. You will very easily perceive what a wide door this would open for fraud and corruption and favoritism, on the one hand, and for robbing the people on the other. 'No, Colonel, Congress has no right to give charity. Individual members may give as much of their own money as they please, but they have no right to touch a dollar of the public money for that purpose. If twice as many houses had been burned in this county as in Georgetown, neither you nor any other member of Congress would have thought of appropriating a dollar for our relief. There are about two hundred and forty members of Congress. If they had shown their sympathy for the sufferers by contributing each one week's pay, it would have made over $13,000. There are plenty of wealthy men in and around Washington who could have given $20,000 without depriving themselves of even a luxury of life.' "The congressmen chose to keep their own money, which, if reports be true, some of them spend not very creditably; and the people about Washington, no doubt, applauded you for relieving them from the necessity of giving by giving what was not yours to give. The people have delegated to Congress, by the Constitution, the power to do certain things. To do these, it is authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing else. Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the Constitution.'

    " 'So you see, Colonel, you have violated the Constitution in what I consider a vital point. It is a precedent fraught with danger to the country, for when Congress once begins to stretch its power beyond the limits of the Constitution, there is no limit to it, and no security for the people. I have no doubt you acted honestly, but that does not make it any better, except as far as you are personally concerned, and you see that I cannot vote for you.'

    "I tell you I felt streaked. I saw if I should have opposition, and this man should go to talking, he would set others to talking, and in that district I was a gone fawn-skin. I could not answer him, and the fact is, I was so fully convinced that he was right, I did not want to. But I must satisfy him, and I said to him:

    " ‘Well, my friend, you hit the nail upon the head when you said I had not sense enough to understand the Constitution. I intended to be guided by it, and thought I had studied it fully. I have heard many speeches in Congress about the powers of Congress, but what you have said here at your plow has got more hard, sound sense in it than all the fine speeches I ever heard. If I had ever taken the view of it that you have, I would have put my head into the fire before I would have given that vote; and if you will forgive me and vote for me again, if I ever vote for another unconstitutional law I wish I may be shot.'

    "He laughingly replied; 'Yes, Colonel, you have sworn to that once before, but I will trust you again upon one condition. You say that you are convinced that your vote was wrong. Your acknowledgment of it will do more good than beating you for it. If, as you go around the district, you will tell people about this vote, and that you are satisfied it was wrong, I will not only vote for you, but will do what I can to keep down opposition, and, perhaps, I may exert some little influence in that way.'

    " ‘If I don't’, said I, 'I wish I may be shot; and to convince you that I am in earnest in what I say I will come back this way in a week or ten days, and if you will get up a gathering of the people, I will make a speech to them. Get up a barbecue, and I will pay for it.'

    " ‘No, Colonel, we are not rich people in this section, but we have plenty of provisions to contribute for a barbecue, and some to spare for those who have none. The push of crops will be over in a few days, and we can then afford a day for a barbecue. This is Thursday; I will see to getting it up on Saturday week. Come to my house on Friday, and we will go together, and I promise you a very respectable crowd to see and hear you.’

    " 'Well, I will be here. But one thing more before I say good-bye. I must know your name.’

    " 'My name is Bunce.'

    " 'Not Horatio Bunce?'

    " 'Yes.’

    " 'Well, Mr. Bunce, I never saw you before, though you say you have seen me, but I know you very well. I am glad I have met you, and very proud that I may hope to have you for my friend.'

    "It was one of the luckiest hits of my life that I met him. He mingled but little with the public, but was widely known for his remarkable intelligence and incorruptible integrity, and for a heart brimful and running over with kindness and benevolence, which showed themselves not only in words but in acts. He was the oracle of the whole country around him, and his fame had extended far beyond the circle of his immediate acquaintance. Though I had never met him, before, I had heard much of him, and but for this meeting it is very likely I should have had opposition, and had been beaten. One thing is very certain, no man could now stand up in that district under such a vote.

    "At the appointed time I was at his house, having told our conversation to every crowd I had met, and to every man I stayed all night with, and I found that it gave the people an interest and a confidence in me stronger than I had ever seen manifested before.

    "Though I was considerably fatigued when I reached his house, and, under ordinary circumstances, should have gone early to bed, I kept him up until midnight, talking about the principles and affairs of government, and got more real, true knowledge of them than I had got all my life before.

    "I have known and seen much of him since, for I respect him - no, that is not the word - I reverence and love him more than any living man, and I go to see him two or three times every year; and I will tell you, sir, if every one who professes to be a Christian lived and acted and enjoyed it as he does, the religion of Christ would take the world by storm.

    "But to return to my story. The next morning we went to the barbecue, and, to my surprise, found about a thousand men there. I met a good many whom I had not known before, and they and my friend introduced me around until I had got pretty well acquainted - at least, they all knew me.

    "In due time notice was given that I would speak to them. They gathered up around a stand that had been erected. I opened my speech by saying:

    " ‘Fellow-citizens - I present myself before you today feeling like a new man. My eyes have lately been opened to truths which ignorance or prejudice, or both, had heretofore hidden from my view. I feel that I can today offer you the ability to render you more valuable service than I have ever been able to render before. I am here today more for the purpose of acknowledging my error than to seek your votes. That I should make this acknowledgment is due to myself as well as to you. Whether you will vote for me is a matter for your consideration only.’"

    "I went on to tell them about the fire and my vote for the appropriation and then told them why I was satisfied it was wrong. I closed by saying:

    " ‘And now, fellow-citizens, it remains only for me to tell you that the most of the speech you have listened to with so much interest was simply a repetition of the arguments by which your neighbor, Mr. Bunce, convinced me of my error.

    " ‘It is the best speech I ever made in my life, but he is entitled to the
    credit for it. And now I hope he is satisfied with his convert and that he will get up here and tell you so.'

    "He came upon the stand and said:

    " ‘Fellow-citizens - It affords me great pleasure to comply with the request of Colonel Crockett. I have always considered him a thoroughly honest man, and I am satisfied that he will faithfully perform all that he has promised you today.'

    "He went down, and there went up from that crowd such a shout for Davy Crockett as his name never called forth before.'

    "I am not much given to tears, but I was taken with a choking then and felt some big drops rolling down my cheeks. And I tell you now that the remembrance of those few words spoken by such a man, and the honest, hearty shout they produced, is worth more to me than all the honors I have received and all the reputation I have ever made, or ever shall make, as a member of Congress.'

    "Now, sir," concluded Crockett, "you know why I made that speech yesterday.

    "There is one thing now to which I will call your attention. You remember that I proposed to give a week's pay. There are in that House many very wealthy men - men who think nothing of spending a week's pay, or a dozen of them, for a dinner or a wine party when they have something to accomplish by it. Some of those same men made beautiful speeches upon the great debt of gratitude which the country owed the deceased--a debt which could not be paid by money--and the insignificance and worthlessness of money, particularly so insignificant a sum as $10,000, when weighed against the honor of the nation. Yet not one of them responded to my proposition. Money with them is nothing but trash when it is to come out of the people. But it is the one great thing for which most of them are striving, and many of them sacrifice honor, integrity, and justice to obtain it."

    Found this at the Ron Paul 2008 website.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  12. red14

    red14 Well-Known Member

    Aug 17, 2009
    N FLA
    Thank you Desertgoldman, for a thoroughly enjoyable post. A sentimental trip back to the America of my youth.
  13. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    In a word...

    One of the greatest words in our language.
    And one of the least conceived.

    Nothing quite like a good ol butt kicking to put you in your place (physical, financial, mental, or otherwise). Once you've been there, it opens a whole new perspective on life. Been there and lived through it. Rose above it and have a profound new understanding. The art of being humble is that you give to others in similar situations. Be it financialy, spiritualy, lend a hand, whatever.

    Traditionaly, Americans have been the most humble in history.
    All of that is currently being destroyed by arrogance.:(:mad:

    The culture of 'give to me', vs 'I can help', is upon us. It's becoming a non-battle. The government has turned 'vs' into 'I'll take it so I can help'.
    Choice is no longer an issue. Humility will no longer exist.

    When we can no longer be humble, our country as we know it will be destroyed. Our ability to freely give will be usurped by the governments better judgement as witnessed in their own minds.

    In no way should freedom and humility be considered servitude.
    Yet that's the path we are headed down.:mad:

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