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Discussion Starter #1
...in time for the 2014 Elections.

OK, all you "Third party" change guys.

CONVINCE me. And 50 Million OTHER voters.


How EXACTLY, in DETAIL, do you propose we get to a VIABLE Third Party where we can turn this around in TWO YEARS with the 2014 Mid-terms...

....WITHOUT tearing apart history, where in the SECOND term the party out of power scores BIG and should take control of BOTH houses....


I'm listening. Give me DETAILS not principles, by the way.

Like where is the headquarters, who is the chairman, what is the platform, where is the local office, and where exactly do we deposit the BILLIONS of $ we need to collect in donations in the next two years?

Just wondering where I go to sign up.
 

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Start local.

Why third party?

They actually support the Constitution and conservative ideas that we all believe in.
 

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Start local.

Why third party?

They actually support the Constitution and conservative ideas that we all believe in.
Carefull, do you really think Peace and freedom, or Green peace support the constitution? They are 3rd partys too you know

How far are you willing to go PS. If I decide to do it, and I'm still leaning that way, I will join the AMERICAN Independent party. I don't agree with the libertarians on key issues.

There is also the conservative party. However not in Comifornia, otherwise I would have already joined it
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I hear you.

I grew up in New York. You can REGISTER as a Conservative. You always COULD. You can VOTE "Straight Conservative" if you desire.

WHY can't I do that in Indiana?

(Although in Indiana the Republican party is a HELLUVA lot more conservative than the "Republican Party" in New York!)

And in a way, perhaps that is one of the reasons WHY New York is run by Liberal Democrats...the "Republicans" are SEPARATED from the "Conservatives...."

WHY do we NOT have a Nationwide "Conservative" Party?

But then if I remember right, maybe because George Wallace was the LAST "Conservative" Presidential candidate?

We give the damm lying Dems a "Free Shot" at the "Rascist" label...
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Carefull, do you really think Peace and freedom, or Green peace support the constitution? They are 3rd partys too you know

How far are you willing to go PS. If I decide to do it, and I'm still leaning that way, I will join the AMERICAN Independent party. I don't agree with the libertarians on key issues.

There is also the conservative party. However not in Comifornia, otherwise I would have already joined it
I hear you A-dude, with regard to the Libertarians.

Ever since High School, I have been "attracted" to the Libertarians, heck, 75% to 80% of what they believe in I AGREE with, but then they get into that legalizing drugs and eliminating the military isolationist crap and they lose me....BEFORE I get into their RADICAL crap....


A True "American Constitutionalist" party as I see it would have to first demand allegiance to the Constitution and Declaration of Independence as written, as LEGAL contracts, Amendments to date and all; and demand NO changes without further Amendments...(with the understanding that we can REVISIT all Amendments, such as those that applied to direct election of Senators, much as we "revisited" Prohibition...)then adopt (Coopt?) the "Good Stuff" the Libertarians support, wrapped around the message of Conservatism, but also adopt a message of complete support of Free Enterprise, Free market Capitalism, and rights of Private Property, long with the principle of a "Fair and Flat Tax...."

....and that Supreme Court Justices shall ONLY be deemed qualified by their experience and decisions based in CONTRACT law...

...along with an underlying message of "American Exceptionalism" in the world...

THAT is a party I could wholeheartedly support...and defend.
 

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http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/

currently holding the balance of power in 2 states here

restoring 134 gun laws and entitlements

removing stupid anti gun legislation

blocking stupid laws by the greens and socialists

keeping it real

BUT!!!

this is the second version

i started the first one and the mongrel who we stuck in to lead it became a low life politician and so we the memebers scraped the party thrwew him out , sued him into oblivion and started again with the two incumbants thoughly sure in the knowledge that if they sold us out they too would be mush under my boot toot sweet the first time they did so

they aint been perfect , but they been legit so far and its worked well

through this we now have a fully funded NGO

http://www.gamecouncil.nsw.gov.au/

thats basically a lobby group for hunting in this state

take a look what we have achieved from where we where when they first took our guns away

we have 3 times the guns they took today and less socialist BS

next step federal politics

IT IS POSSIBLE

but you gotta keep the politicians out of it

no career politicians is the secret

we take our candidates from our ranks for 4 years and then they retire or i retire them , with the members seconding it

your party MUST be run by its members and not from the head

we the people

aussie style

as for things non gun

we vote the Good Book path

no fags ( but we dont out law em either ) just no special ness

drugs banned

free speech even if we dont like it

and compatible immigration for those who would benifit the nation as a priority

with human aid immigration cases limited by numbers and budget ( 45,000 a year is the goal )
 

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I hear you A-dude, with regard to the Libertarians.

Ever since High School, I have been "attracted" to the Libertarians, heck, 75% to 80% of what they believe in I AGREE with, but then they get into that legalizing drugs and eliminating the military isolationist crap and they lose me....BEFORE I get into their RADICAL crap...
I understand being against isolationism. And God knows I would never call myself a member of the Libertarian Party.

But why is decriminalizing drugs the part that freaks everyone out? Know how much pot I would smoke if it weren't a crime? Still none. But I just can't grasp why we feel the need to spend billions of tax dollars and imprison millions of people for victimless crimes.

If they did something to harm another person, then make that a crime (it probably is anyway). But if they choose to smoke pot while watching reruns of Chapelle's Show as their hobby, why should I care?

I feel the same way about seat belt laws, by the way. We need simple government, not overbearing parents.

Thread drift, just for you PS.
 

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I understand being against isolationism. And God knows I would never call myself a member of the Libertarian Party.

But why is decriminalizing drugs the part that freaks everyone out? Know how much pot I would smoke if it weren't a crime? Still none. But I just can't grasp why we feel the need to spend billions of tax dollars and imprison millions of people for victimless crimes.

If they did something to harm another person, then make that a crime (it probably is anyway). But if they choose to smoke pot while watching reruns of Chapelle's Show as their hobby, why should I care?

I feel the same way about seat belt laws, by the way. We need simple government, not overbearing parents.

Thread drift, just for you PS.
Josh, let me ask you this. Do you believe all the crap about second hand smoke? I'm not a smoker, haven't been one for years. I believe most of it.

Smoking pot IS NOT a victimless crime. To think so is plain ignorance. you haven't thought it through. Ever get a contact high? Know why its called a contact high? you didn't smoke it, but you still got a buzz.

I work in peoples homes. I CAN NOT REFUSE to work in there home because they are smoking cigs. I can refuse to if they are smoking pot. Once it becomes legal I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REFUSE to work in that environment.

What about the kids in the home breathing in pot fumes? Seriously have you thought this through? Alcohol as long as you don't leave the house is victimless. I can't be effected by your drinking. Smelling your drunk ass breath will not effect me. To think that pot is victimless is ignorance. When you put fumes into the air, you are effecting those around you. Sorry bud. Don't listen to the hippies, stop and think

And I'm sorry for following the drift
 

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decriminalising pot is one thing , smack ?? ya kidding , if legal the junkie will still rob you to get a fix , bash old ladies and break in and steal your hard earned stuff as they are too high all the time to hold a job

pot was legal in my home state for 20 years and it stopped a lot of hassles ,
the biggest hassle was idiots getting stoned and driving .. fact
every third house had a few plants it seemed but that passed too, it became boring , the barrossa valley wines where more trendy
the six month heroin trial was a diaster and resulted in the snowtown massacre ( and a huge on going heroin problem) as they all had access to the crap but they where murdering folks to get their welfare payments to fund the legal smack

pots one thing , anything else , forget it

legalise Kava

tastes crap but i dont mind that buzz

and its very social like pot only

pot heads dont fight unless they drink ..

same with kava but with kava you cant drink , drink and you'll throw it up in 5 min's

so is very good for folks with alcohol issues , and the koori folks with drinking problems do real well with it

work all day knock off have a a feed and a few kava's and back up early the next dayb

big change form 20 year ago eh

drink until they passed out then get the DT's
 

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I understand being against isolationism. And God knows I would never call myself a member of the Libertarian Party.

But why is decriminalizing drugs the part that freaks everyone out? Know how much pot I would smoke if it weren't a crime? Still none. But I just can't grasp why we feel the need to spend billions of tax dollars and imprison millions of people for victimless crimes.

If they did something to harm another person, then make that a crime (it probably is anyway). But if they choose to smoke pot while watching reruns of Chapelle's Show as their hobby, why should I care?

I feel the same way about seat belt laws, by the way. We need simple government, not overbearing parents.

Thread drift, just for you PS.
I agree here. Why are we supporting all these pot heads in prison? Nixon's war on drugs was a waste of billion's of dollars.
 

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I understand being against isolationism. And God knows I would never call myself a member of the Libertarian Party.

But why is decriminalizing drugs the part that freaks everyone out? Know how much pot I would smoke if it weren't a crime? Still none. But I just can't grasp why we feel the need to spend billions of tax dollars and imprison millions of people for victimless crimes.

If they did something to harm another person, then make that a crime (it probably is anyway). But if they choose to smoke pot while watching reruns of Chapelle's Show as their hobby, why should I care?

I feel the same way about seat belt laws, by the way. We need simple government, not overbearing parents.

Thread drift, just for you PS.
I feel the same way. If men can marry men and women can marry wome then I should be able to smoke a joint if I want to. I don't want to but I fail to see the problem with it.
 

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The libertarian party wants to see the drug issue be a state's rights issue, and NOT a federal issue. The feds should be OUT of the anti-drug business. It's a very corrupt money game and the Feds are eating it up.

It should be up to the states, as EVERYthing should be. That's not wrong. It's constitutional, and how the founders would see it as well. Read their original writings and you will see that to be true.

The fed goobermint has NO right managing what they do. They've co-opted the power from the states. The states are not blameless either, they've abdicated their role and responsibility.

As for the foreign policy issue.... we're in 42 countries right now. That's ridiculous. There is NO pro argument that will make that sound good. We can NO LONGER afford to be the bully on the block. The ONLY reason we do it is to keep the dollar afloat. That's the main reason. Our dollar is dying because we're killing it trying to run the world.
 

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Carefull, do you really think Peace and freedom, or Green peace support the constitution? They are 3rd partys too you know

How far are you willing to go PS. If I decide to do it, and I'm still leaning that way, I will join the AMERICAN Independent party. I don't agree with the libertarians on key issues.

There is also the conservative party. However not in Comifornia, otherwise I would have already joined it
Vote for the person you think is going to do what you support, whether that is the libertarians, the American independent party, conservative party, etc.


------------------------------

Now with regards to isolationism, that is not their platform. Their platform is non-interventionism. There's a difference. Let me ask what all these wars all over the world has ever done for us? What did we gain from it?

The anti-drug war stuff... The point is that people should be free to choose their own destiny. If you wanna go do crack, whatever, I could care less until it affects me. That's the idea. I don't think anything other than marijuana would be decriminalized though. It's just not realistic to think it would.
 

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Josh, let me ask you this. Do you believe all the crap about second hand smoke? I'm not a smoker, haven't been one for years. I believe most of it.

Smoking pot IS NOT a victimless crime. To think so is plain ignorance. you haven't thought it through. Ever get a contact high? Know why its called a contact high? you didn't smoke it, but you still got a buzz.

I work in peoples homes. I CAN NOT REFUSE to work in there home because they are smoking cigs. I can refuse to if they are smoking pot. Once it becomes legal I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REFUSE to work in that environment.

What about the kids in the home breathing in pot fumes? Seriously have you thought this through? Alcohol as long as you don't leave the house is victimless. I can't be effected by your drinking. Smelling your drunk ass breath will not effect me. To think that pot is victimless is ignorance. When you put fumes into the air, you are effecting those around you. Sorry bud. Don't listen to the hippies, stop and think

And I'm sorry for following the drift
First off, don't feel bad for drifting one of Polishshooter's threads. He has drifted more threads here than anyone. :D:D

Yes, I believe that "secondhand" smoke is unhealthy. I avoided restaurants that permitted smoking for years (now it's banned here, so I don't have to worry about it anyway). Their restaurant, their choice. Cater to smokers or cater to me. There are plenty of places for me to grab a bite or a drink without sacrificing breathing.


What I said was if it causes harm to another person, make that a crime. Getting your kids high? Say goodbye to your kids. Same thing as if you leave the whisky bottle available and your 8 year old gets drunk.
Crash a car while high? Nope, not an "accident," a crime just like if you were drunk.
I'm fine if we treat it differently than cigarettes. No smoking in public. Or don't smoke it at all; brownies work just fine (as more than a few overweight potheads will agree).

If you're out of control, the crime is what you did while out of control. The crime of "possession of an inanimate object" is one I'm never going to understand.

Why can't you refuse service to anyone at your discretion? Is that a company policy? Surely that's not a state law, is it? :confused:

How is full decriminalization worse than the "anyone can get an Rx" medical marijuana?
 

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How EXACTLY, in DETAIL, do you propose we get to a VIABLE Third Party where we can turn this around in TWO YEARS with the 2014 Mid-terms...
I think a very valuable lesson will be the IMMENSE costs associated with the Obama health care plan. We were informed today, that our January 1, 2013 costs for health benefits will go up 17.5%. We were told as of this morning that we will all now be sharing the costs of our health benefits. Mind you, this comes after several paycuts over the last 3 years here. I am now making what I made when I was hired 10 years ago.

Come January 1, 2014 we were just told, minutes ago, that our health care costs would again go up, under the Obama plan, they will be going up over 70% from where they are right now.

Once this pain is felt come 2014, I imagine that a lot of voters out there will be willing to begin to listen to someone espousing TRUE fiscal responsibility, which is a benchmark of the libertarian philosophy. IF there is still some semblance of representative government and sanity, there may be a slim chance to take Congress to the realm of common sense. Slim to none.

I believe our lifestyles are going to drastically change in the next 18 months - 2 years. It's going to become very difficult to pay bills and put food on the table.

I don't know what to do.



The flip side of this scenario is far darker however......

When things become so bleak that the people realize what has been done to them, I believe there will be serious violent uprisings everywhere, and the wealthy class will beg the government to "save them." And save them they will, with MARTIAL LAW, brute force, and interment camps (these already exist by the way). America will disappear from the international stage as it completely implodes from within. Christians can expect persecution, Constitutionally minded patriots can expect persecution and downright extermination. This playbook has been used countless times. It is not new. Just new here.
 

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There are a number of reasons that a 3rd party or even a 4th and 5th party could help things. As for viable parties - yes, the Libertarians could be one. This emerging Tea Party (stupid name though) but it could be one. A Constitutional Party would be good also.

Elections would have to change though and become two stage elections - not a bad thing. In the first round all the candidates of the parties are voted on, the 2 with the highest votes then move to the final election. This is what happens in many countries now. Also, you find that the people who supported and voted for parties that didn't get to the final two - many of them don't bother to vote since their pathetic candidate is no longer in the running. Even just having a 3rd party that could win enough seats in Congress to break the 50% of the other two parties means that the 'bi partisan' calls get muted. Now, the representatives of that minority party have to be swayed one way or the other to get a 50+% vote on something.

Getting the American people to vote for 3rd party candidates though in enough numbers is another task indeed.
 

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I think a very valuable lesson will be the IMMENSE costs associated with the Obama health care plan. We were informed today, that our January 1, 2013 costs for health benefits will go up 17.5%. We were told as of this morning that we will all now be sharing the costs of our health benefits. Mind you, this comes after several paycuts over the last 3 years here. I am now making what I made when I was hired 10 years ago.

Come January 1, 2014 we were just told, minutes ago, that our health care costs would again go up, under the Obama plan, they will be going up over 70% from where they are right now.

Once this pain is felt come 2014, I imagine that a lot of voters out there will be willing to begin to listen to someone espousing TRUE fiscal responsibility, which is a benchmark of the libertarian philosophy. IF there is still some semblance of representative government and sanity, there may be a slim chance to take Congress to the realm of common sense. Slim to none.

I believe our lifestyles are going to drastically change in the next 18 months - 2 years. It's going to become very difficult to pay bills and put food on the table.

I don't know what to do.



The flip side of this scenario is far darker however......

When things become so bleak that the people realize what has been done to them, I believe there will be serious violent uprisings everywhere, and the wealthy class will beg the government to "save them." And save them they will, with MARTIAL LAW, brute force, and interment camps (these already exist by the way). America will disappear from the international stage as it completely implodes from within. Christians can expect persecution, Constitutionally minded patriots can expect persecution and downright extermination. This playbook has been used countless times. It is not new. Just new here.
I totally agree with you on this. Healthcare is bankrupting this country. They own the politicians so they get what they want. They own Obama so he sold us all out. Healthcare in this country is 16% of GDP. In Europe where they have government healthcare it is 6% of GDP.

Healthcare cost here are out of control with no end in sight. Now you will be fined if you don't have healthcare that you can't afford.
 

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Obamacare - you don't even want to know the true scope of this fiasco. The original bill as it passed was 906 pages. Very few people read it all. Certainly not all of the lazy Congress bums. I have the full copy of the bill the way it passed. Inside the bill are amendments also to previous acts of Congress including an amendment to the Social Security Act.

Currently with all the regulations that had to be written to implement Obozocare - the page count totals 5,931 pages. This needs a whole new branch of law (and of course a whole new slew of lawyers).
 

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Currently with all the regulations that had to be written to implement Obozocare - the page count totals 5,931 pages. QUOTE]

And Pelosi swears she's read the whole thing from cover to cover. Likely she did the same thing I did in high school when faced with writing a book report on Tolstoy's bazillion page War & Peace - bought the Classic Comic version.
 
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