[ChuckR]

Para Ordnance FTE

Hey guys,
Bought a Para Ordnance carry 9 the other day. Took it home amd disassembled the gun. Cleaned it and reoiled it, took it to the range today to check it out. WITH the very first shot I got a FTE, cleared it and tried again same thing. I started with commercial PMC 115 FMJ-RN ammo, I may of gotten it to fire twice before FTE. Then I tried different ammo and bullet weight. I tried 124 gn FMJ-RN, 124 gn FMJ-FN and Winchester Nato 147 FMJ-RN, No luck, I would get FTE almost every time, the best I did was 1 time I was able to shoot 3 consecative bullets before it started to FTE. When I get a FTE, the case seems to have been extracted about 1\8 of an inch and anew round from the mag is butted up against the spent casing tring to load. Is there something I can check or does this have to go back to the Manufactor? Thanks
Chuck

 

[Shooter45]

Check the extractor tension.

Proper tensioning of the extractor is vital to reliability. Too much tension and chambering will be severely impeded or prevented. Too little tension, and extraction and ejection will be weak or non-existent. An old gunsmith trick to test the tension of the extractor is to remove the slide from the pistol, and push a round of ammo up under the extractor from below. With proper tension, the round should be held in place regardless of how the slide is turned, yet when the round is moved downwards from its center position about 1/10 of an inch, the round should drop off.

Tension is adjusted by removing the extractor, reversing it in the extractor hole in the slide, and pressing sideways one way or the other to increase or decrease tension. The depth of the extractor’s protrusion into the case area is controlled by removing a slight amount of metal from the inside of the rounded protrusion just back of the extractor claw with a file.

 

[LDBennett]

ChuckR:

Sounds to me like the extractor is not doing its job. You may have dirt in the cavity where it lives or residue on the bolt face that is keeping it from gripping the rim of the case. Or a burr (???).

Take the slide off the gun. Slide a loaded round up and under the extractor. It should not fall off the slide with gentle shaking. The shape of the extractor must be right. If it does not grip the case correctly and with enough to retain it during recoil then you get failures to eject.

Is the gun new? If so send it to Para-Ordinance for warrantee repairs. Is it used? Then take it to a good gunsmith to fix the extractor if it is wrong. Or take it back to where you bought it for your money back or for them to repair it.

I use a test for the retention of the case by the extractor. I made a test jig by soldering a loop of wire around an empty case just above the rim with a loop on the end. I use a trigger pull gage to pull the case, which has been pushed up and onto the bolt face under the extractor. I bend the extractor such that it takes 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 pounds to pull down the case off the slide. That seems to be sufficient to assure the extractor tension is adequate. But be warned that the extractors shape is complex and without a Service Manual (like the Jerry Kuhnhausen book) you will have no idea if that shape is right or not unless it is obvious that the extractor is broken.

LDBennett

 

[ChuckR]

Thanks guys
The Gun was bought new,

 

[Shooter45]

Since it was new, I'll assume you removed the extractor for a cleaning and removed any grease from the extractor channel. If so, an adjustment should fix the problem.

 

[LDBennett]

ChuckR:

The extractor adjustment takes only a few minutes. The cost of you returning it to Para-Ordanance might be more than having a gunsmith make the adjustment locally and paying him. Sometimes gun stores have gunsmiths they use and you might consider taking the gun back to where you bought it. They should fix it for free or insist it go back to Para-Ordanance.

But do check to see if the extractor holds the loaded cartridge to the slide face (off the gun) securely. If it doesn't it probably is an adjustment or something inside the extractor cavity in the slide. If it does then it has to go back to Para-Ordanance. I know, it should have worked out of the box. Most manufacturers test fire guns before they leave the factory. Obviously Para-ordanance does not. After testing the extractor you might try calling their service department to see what they want you to do. Insist, if they want it back, that they pay the shipping. Have them tell you exactly how to ship it to them if it has to go back. There are legalities to shipping hand guns!

LDBennett

 

[ChuckR]

Update on problem,
On Saturday I disassembled the pistol,I took the slide and placed a bullet against the back plate and under the extractor. (hope I made sense here) The bullet remained in place no matter which way I rotated the slide. I then press slightly on the middle of the bullet and the bullet would slide about 1\16 " then fall away. So I think from what you guys have said that the extractor may be ok. I then removed the extractor and cleaned it and the spring. Cleaned the hole where the extractor goes and reassemble the extractor and the pistol. Took it to the range on Sunday, First two mags fire well except the last round would not load.(different problem). After that the FTE came back on almost every round fired, sometimes I could shot 2 rounds off before getting a FTE. So I guess that I need to send it in, and will do that on Monday. Will keep you updated, and thanks for all your help and support.
Chuck

 

[Double D]

Its funny that cleaning the extractor caused the gun to operate good for two mags and then the problem returned. I know when your not familiar with tuning extractors, you dont really know what to do. I have had one that would not go into battery fully and you had to push it in. I diagnosed it to be the extractor was too tight and it was dragging the brass. It would leave scratches in the brass. Took it out, bent it a little, put it back it and waaalaa! But, this was not my first rodeo working with extractors....

 

[RJay]

Why are we working on the extractor when the problem seems to be that it is not ejecting? or am I reading the psot wrong?

 

[Double D]

Why are we working on the extractor when the problem seems to be that it is not ejecting? or am I reading the psot wrong?

What does an extractor do??

 

[RJay]

The extractor simply pulls the shell out of the chamber, it doesn't eject it. Yes, a bad extractor will gum up the works,{ so will a bad magazine }, but if after the shell is pulled out of the chamber, if the ejector doesn't send it flying it will just lie there making faces at you when the slide slams down on it. Now, I'm just a shade tree type of guy and not about to get into the internals of a .45 with the pros, but is the problem extacting or ejecting? I do know a few times in my life I couldn't see the trees because the forest was in the way { a few times almost going nuts on a simple problem that took 60 seconds to fix after I sit down and thought about it. } Just wondering.0...., Don't really know.

 

[Shooter45]

Ron, from the op's post.

"When I get a FTE, the case seems to have been extracted about 1\8 of an inch and anew round from the mag is butted up against the spent casing tring to load."
It sure sounds like an extractor problem to me.

Not having his 1911 on the bench in front of me, this is just an educated guess. As you can see in his statement, it's extracting about 1/8".

I'm wondering if he tried another mag ? Again, a lot of problems are mag related and I usually try another one before tearing into the pistol.
He never mentioned another mag and I didn't ask. My bad.

 

[ChuckR]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the info. Called Para this morning, talk to a rep who immediately ask if I had the 2 piece ejector. I said I did, and he said that he would send me the newer style one piece. So I guess this must be a known problem, so I will see what happens when it gets here. NO, I did not try any other magazines, I do not have any other single stack mags to try. I will address the other problem of the last round not feeding when I get the extraction problem fixed. From reading Para forums the feed problem is supposedly a known issue with the stock mags. Guys, thanks for all your help and suggestions, I really do appreciate it, I will keep you up dated to whats happening.
Chuck

 

[Shooter45]

When you buy replacement mags, don't buy factory ones.

There are a few aftermarket mags for your pistol of known quality.

 

[ChuckR]

Hey guys,
I received the new extractor from Para-USA, it is a one peice instead of two peices. Installed the extractor and it will not come close to holding a bullet in place. So I know the extractor needs to be adjusted. Can someone tell me the best way to adjust it? I have never done it before.I tried calling a few gunsmiths around my area and they all claim a 3-4 week backlog. I did not know if I should have started a new thread or not, so I left it here. Thanks
Chuck

 

[Double D]

Check the extractor tension.

Proper tensioning of the extractor is vital to reliability. Too much tension and chambering will be severely impeded or prevented. Too little tension, and extraction and ejection will be weak or non-existent. An old gunsmith trick to test the tension of the extractor is to remove the slide from the pistol, and push a round of ammo up under the extractor from below. With proper tension, the round should be held in place regardless of how the slide is turned, yet when the round is moved downwards from its center position about 1/10 of an inch, the round should drop off.

Tension is adjusted by removing the extractor, reversing it in the extractor hole in the slide, and pressing sideways one way or the other to increase or decrease tension. The depth of the extractor’s protrusion into the case area is controlled by removing a slight amount of metal from the inside of the rounded protrusion just back of the extractor claw with a file.

Read this.

 

[ChuckR]

Hey Guys,
GOOD news, I read some articles and watched a few You-Tube videos, then I adjusted my new extractor. Got it set up, to where it look good. Today I took it to the range and fire 20 rounds of PMC 115 FMJ-RN and about 200 rounds of my reloads of various types.( all 124gn RN, HP, FN.) with no failure to extract. I am very happy with the way the gun now performs, I experimented with the mags and if I load 8 rounds in the mags I will get a Failure to feed on second round. BUT if I only load 7 rounds in the mags they work flawously. I will use the Para mags for now, as I am just shooting it at the range to make sure all is ok, and build my confidence before I concider it to carry. For replacement mags, what after market brand would you guys suggest. I have been looking at Wilson combat and Metalform, what do you think of them or are there better ones out there?. Again Thanks for all your help and as always you guys on this forum are great.
Chuck

 

[Shooter45]

Both are excellent mags.

Metalform cost less but they're not shiney like the Wilson Combat mags. Plus, you won't find a better mag for wadcutter ammo.
I have a couple dozen Wilson Combat mags, some new in the package.
So, all I'm buying now is Metalform.

 

[LDBennett]

ChuckR:

Glad you got it working. It is very important for the extractor to be able to hold the cartridges to the bolt face. If it fails to do that then ejection becomes unreliable.

It is not unusual for eight round mags to not feed correctly when loaded with 8 rounds. Some better 8 round mags do feed 8 rounds, though.

LDBennett