Perfect hollow point for self defense?

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Boozecoon, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. Boozecoon

    Boozecoon New Member

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    Sounds excellent! Hope you like them. Thanks for the reply ~joe
     
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  2. rcairflr

    rcairflr Well-Known Member

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    Speer Gold Dot
     
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  3. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    I agree that there is no such thing as 'the perfect hollow point' bullet in a handgun. No matter who makes them, hollow points will fail to expand at some point in time. The problem is bullet speed. Handguns just don't produce enough bullet speed to make expansion happen every time. I've seen videos of Critical Duty, and Critical Defense bullets fail to expand. If the bullet fails to expand, you simply have a solid bullet. And if bullet speed is high enough, say in 9mm, or .357, you get over penetration!
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  4. Boozecoon

    Boozecoon New Member

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    Thank you everyone for your reply. I love seeing, and hearing all thoughts and opinions.
     
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  5. Broot

    Broot Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Running Federal HST LE 124gr 9mm myself. I would like to shoot some ballistics gel with them out of my P938. Just haven't made the trip down to where I can buy gelatin cheap yet.
     
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  6. Kippy

    Kippy Well-Known Member

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    Diffrent guns like diffrent rounds. What works in one won't work as well in anouther.
     
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  7. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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  8. Broot

    Broot Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks!
     
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  9. Country101

    Country101 Well-Known Member

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    I will add that the same bullet will not perform the same in different weights and speeds. I carry the 230g hydrashoks and they perform wonderfully in my 1911. I have shot quite a few pigs with them and have been satisfied with the results. My buddy ordered us some and he ended up getting the 185g +P. Since I had them, I used them. When I shot pigs with them, I noticed I would have to use more rounds to drop the pigs than I did with the 230g. I know that shot placement could have affected these results and I did not take any statistics, so it is not a definitive piece of information. These pigs were usually all on the run at various distances and sometimes I was even chasing them down in the kawasaki mule and shooting out of the front or sides. I did shoot quite a few less with the 185 +P. I only had a few boxes of them.

    Bottom line is that I am more comfortable with the larger slower hydrashoks because my experience is that they perform better. Carry what you are comfortable with, but realize they all perform slightly different.
     
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  10. UncleFudd

    UncleFudd Well-Known Member

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    What carver and mia6021 said. Handgun HPs are not the do-all and only marginally better than cast bullets.
    Several years ago while I still had the indoor range, I did a whole bunch of tests especially of SD, HP ammo. All the ones I could find. I did low light tests first to see if any of them caused a flash that would affect eyesight for follow-up shots. Answer is not one caused such a flash. (I actually posted pics of the different flashes back then)
    I was able to get some deer, roadkill with the ribs and hind quarters in very good condition. I cut the hindquarters in to two pieces and left the rib cages whole and then shot them with the same HP ammo I had been testing. I thought it would be a very close approximation of what these bullets would do in a human torso.
    It was interesting and almost disappointing as most had very little expansion. I did NOT have a single pass through of the rib cages with one exception. The 357 mag., 125 gr JHPs by Fed passed through but did not contact the wall about 10 ft beyond. They passed through but fell on the floor.
    They also had the most expansion of any caliber or weight of bullets. If I remember correctly, these rounds were traveling about 1300 to 1400 fps.
    The Speer Gold dots and Fed Hydra shock had the most penetration and expansion in 45acp, 9mm, 357, 41 mag and 44 specl. The 45 ACP and 44 specl had the least expansion using 230 in 45acp and 240s in the 44.
    So it goes back to basics, shoot and carry what you can afford to practice with. There is no substitute for practice whether it is 22LR or 454 Casul. Hits are the only thing that count.
    Also, 22LR in CCI Stinger HPs were devastating every time I shot into the carcasses. These little rounds did some really crazy things in meat and made me decide they were the thing to carry.
    My tests and research have proven that you will more often hit your intended target with these rounds than with any of the centerfire pistol calibers. They are inherently accurate and more deadly than you can imagine.
    Hope this will give some more insight into "carry ammo" or at least give some food for thought.

    UF
     
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  11. TN Outlaw

    TN Outlaw Well-Known Member

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    HST 9mm in my short barrel Glock 43, extreme defense in my 9x25 dillon glock 20 sf, golden sabre in my 1911, 2 gold dot, 2 critical duty, 1 critical defense in my NAA pug 22wmr. Those are my main 3 carry guns. I shoot what cycles 100% and that is accurate in my gun.
     
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  12. TigerLeo

    TigerLeo Well-Known Member

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    This is all IMHO and not facts in any way but here goes.

    You can carry the MOST accurate ammo in the MOST accurate gun, but 1 if you can't generally shoot worth a darn it won't make a difference. 2, when you're pulling your firearm to save yourself or others, whether your ducking bullets, or trying to stop someone charging you with a weapon, accuracy is going to be marginal at best. I agree with the fact that with a good shot placement a .22 will do some awesome things. But, here's the rub, as I stated, nobody can guarantee accuracy in those situations. So I carry a .40 loaded with 165 grain Winchester PDX1 defenders. I may not hit center mass, or put one between the eyes, so I want to guarantee they go down and stay down if I do my job.
     
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  13. TN Outlaw

    TN Outlaw Well-Known Member

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    Theres alotta truth to your post. Some SD shootings take place as something you can see coming, or maybe not as high stress as they could be but alot, prob most, completely blindside the victim to the point of the fight, flight, or freeze stage. Ive been of the belief that in a high stress SD scenerio it'll be all you can do to remember how to breath, walk, etc. Pulling a trigger will be a hard enough function to ensure happens. Fine accuracy will usually not exist at that point. I will however say the smart thing is to eliminate as many variables as you can so i do still choose to carry rounds that are accurate with reliability being the number 1 qualifier as far as my ammo goes. The gun/holster needs to be comfortable to ensure you will always have the gun on you and not at home 1st and foremost, next YOUR gun needs to be PROVEN reliable with YOUR ammo. You need to practice under high stress as often as possible with your gun, holster, ammo combo. After that its all details and variables that you can try to master for the best possible outcome. Bullet design, accuracy, power etc falls under this category imo.

    I like the thought of stopping power as you spoke of with your 40s&w. Thing ive learned is in the real world most standard handgun cartridges are very similar. 38spl-9mm-40s&w-45acp, all approx 400-500ftlb muzzle energy with an even more minuscule difference in the size hole they leave. How much diff will one give to another in a real world scenerio? Hopefully we will never have to find out for ourselves.
     
  14. The_Patriot2016

    The_Patriot2016 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a big fan of the hornandy critical defense rounds in my .40 and hornandy zombie killers in my 1911.
     
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  15. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    All I have to say about bullet diameter, is that if the size of the hole made is of no consequence, then we would all be shooting the same sized bullets. But of course that isn't the truth. Bigger sized bullets make bigger holes, and bigger holes lets things come out that shouldn't come out, and they come out faster!
     
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