Picatinny?

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by Vladimir, Apr 5, 2009.

  1. Vladimir

    Vladimir Active Member

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    Anything I should know about attaching a sight to a picatinny? I'm not ready to sight in or anything yet, just would like to get the red dot on the AR for show-and-tell. But I don't want to get it on there wrong or unneccessarily scratch things up.

    It would seem like the screws should rest in the divets in the rail but they don't seem to? I googled and couldn't find anything so maybe this is a really dumb question.

    Just remember, I'm a pistol guy :D.
     
  2. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

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    hummmmm. not anything really rocket science about it. if you havent purchased rings yet then i suggest WARNE steel rings. you can get them out of cabelas or other suppliers. they are pretty good rings.
     

  3. LurpyGeek

    LurpyGeek Active Member

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    Not quite sure how to explain it in words, but basically what you said is the case. The clamp kind of claws on the sides just wrap around the outside of the rail, the screw sits in between the teeth on the rail and tightening the screw cinches it all up.

    Some accessories attach using slightly different methods though. On some of them you simply loosen the screw, slip it over the rail and tighten it up. On others, you have to completely remove the screw before putting it over the rail.

    Didn't you have any legos or lincoln logs when you were a kid?
     
  4. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    ROTF :D:D:D
     
  5. Vladimir

    Vladimir Active Member

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    I figured it can't be too complicated but wanted to be sure before I risk doing unnecessary scratching or anything like that.

    My scope came with rings? Is that unusual, or are you saying the stock rings normally suck?

    EDIT: What about placement? is there a standard you would recommend about where to place the red dot, as in far back or far forward, middle, etc? The scope has less wiggle room but recommendations on that would also be helpful.

    Or is this entirely one of those "whatever feels more comfortable" kind of things?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
  6. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

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    no. only if you didnt have rings then look for WARNE. if yours ever give you problems then look for WARNE. You should be ok.

    Placement is up to you and your eye relief, usually their placed towards the back of the rifle.
     
  7. LurpyGeek

    LurpyGeek Active Member

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    Placement on the scope will depend on eye relief and your comfort and preference.

    The red dot won't have the eye relief factor, but it's still up to your comfort. I would probably try putting it directly above the magazine well to start and then experiment with different positions to see what is comfortable.

    I would also recommend what others have said. Depending on what you're going to use the carbine for, I would mount one optic or the other and stick with that. When switching between them, they can come close to returning to zero, but they'll never be perfect.

    Just as a random tangent...

    I've seen some new setups where a carbine will have a high magnification scope mounted normally, and then have a red dot / holographic site mounted on a diagonal mount off the side of the main rail. Thus the magnification can be used for longer more precise shots and then the carbine can be tipped slightly to the side to use the red dot. I couldn't quickly find any pictures to illustrate what I'm describing, but maybe I will later.
     
  8. glocknut

    glocknut Active Member

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    THE FORUM MASCOTT...
    LOL :D:D:D:D:D:D

    Vlad... you ain't never gonna hear the end of the Lego issue... :D:D;)

    mike
    gn
     
  9. Vladimir

    Vladimir Active Member

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    So are some tiny nicks on the rail inevitable then? I imagine this has a bit to do with the quality of the finish but...
     
  10. LurpyGeek

    LurpyGeek Active Member

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    Yes, it depends on the finish. Just about anything you do will leave a mark. It just happens with use. Call it character. However, with optics I wouldn't be mounting / removing them frequently, so they would cover their own marks... but that's just me.
     
  11. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs.
    Remember both eyes open when you position your reflexive sight. And don't be out there shooting it with one eye closed....
     
  12. Vladimir

    Vladimir Active Member

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    Thanks, second question. I see the dot obviously moves as your head moves. Are front sights recommended to line the red dot up with, or are you to just sight it in with your head in the "right" spot and aim for the same position every time?
     
  13. LurpyGeek

    LurpyGeek Active Member

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    The idea behind a red dot or holographic sight is that it is parallax free. That means your head doesn't have to be in any specific place for it to display correctly. This allows you to use it however it is comfortable to you and as Delta mentioned above, you can keep both eyes open to increase situational awareness and depth perception.

    Magnified scopes don't work this way.
     
  14. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Lurpy said it. Keep his words in mind and you'll enjoy your reflexive sight as it was designed. Technically, once zeroed you pretty much can't hold the weapon wrong as far as cheek to stock etc goes. I used M68's and an EOTech to switch to left-hand fire from passenger seat in a moving vehicle and got some good hits.

    I've seen M4's with the above hit consistently at 300 meters because the firers zeroed them to. Reflexive sights are designed for close range though. Keep that in mind. It is a sight that lets you rapidly bring your weapon up and engage at CQB distances. Thus keep both eyes open.

    To answer your zero question...the initial technique I use is called "lollipopping", then I zero it later on a range. You need the weapon's front sight zeroed. Get a good iron sight sight picture and see where your dot is. Based on the front sight post you want to move the dot until it sits on the post like a lollipop. The dot is small on most CCO sights, so it'll look more like a marble sitting on a table.

    The key to success is getting the same iron sight sight picture every time you adjust then recheck the dot or you'll just be chasing your zero all over the place. Either always just touch your nose to the charging handle or put tape exactly where you like your cheekbone to rest. (Lollipopping gives you a working CQB zero...it works fine out to 50 meters just like that, but it is crude...good enough for body shots.)

    If you refine your CCO zero on a range...there's this factor that screws people up. Your iron sights have a 200 meter zero hopefully (300 meter sucks...don't do it....a 200m zero lets you aim center mass from 1-300 meters). Sooooo you lollipopped and your CCO is zeroed to your iron sight at 200m and when you check your CCO point of impact at say 10 meters or 20 meters...and holy smokes it is way low!

    You'll find at 10 meters if you aim at the forehead you're hitting in the neck. What's wrong? Nothing: You're M4 sights/optics sit that high over the bore.

    You can't get a free lunch. If you want the CCO to be precise enough for headshots down the hallway you're going to now have to zero it independently of your iron sights.

    To be dead on at 200 meters you need to be 2" low at 25m, 1.5" high at 100m. Do the math...once you zero that CCO dead on at 10m for true CQB range....yeah forget about long range accurate fire.

    Having said that...always have backup iron sights. I like the flip-up because it will work with a dead CCO on the receiver or flip down to use the red dot of death.

    If you keep all your zeros at a 200 meter dope....this means to take a head shot at 25 ft (like perhaps the guy is properly trained and behind good cover and your target is smaller than your key board, guy in window etc) you'll need to aim at the air over his head to put a pill into his cranial ocular area.

    Iron sights long range. Red dot close range.