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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was chatting with a friend about this and don't really see the value of having a pistol caliber rifle that matches your handgun for self defense or security purposes.

I'd like to get your thoughts on this topic, and if in support of it, what rifle are you referring to?

Thanks
 

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I have a Marlin Model 1894 Lever-Action 44 magnum to go with my Ruger Blackhawk 44 magnum pistol. I love both. Anything right on top of you the pistol is fine. The 1894 really brings out the best in the 44 mag at anything over 50 yards. It is right on at 100 yards. I haven't had a chance to shoot it at linger ranges yet.
 

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I have a couple of .357 revolvers, and a Marlin lever action rifle in the same caliber. It is fun to shoot in both types of firearms, and Grim is correct.

Some of my old pals in the mid 60's armed themselves with 44 mag handguns and carbines for the brush country where they had deer leases. About as many deer were taken with the handgun as the rifle, but it was mostly due to the thick brush.
 

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45 Colt rifles did not exist in the old west. They carried 44/40 or 38/40 or 32/20 rifle/pistol combinations, but not 45 Colt.

There was not enough rim on the cartridge to accept a rifle's extractor. This is some of the original 45 Colt ammo. The stuff with the copper "brass".



Now compare the old-style "balloon-head" ammo to modern solid head. The only reason you can use 45 in a rifle now is the solid head allows them to cut a deep extractor groove.



Compare that to the (compared to the 45) huge rim on a 44/40, which, by the way, is a rifle cartridge loaded in pistols.



Now, to answer the question. I really don't know. It would depend, to a great extent, on WHERE you were shooting. If you are hunting in deep woods or thick brush, or some other place where your greatest shot might be 100 yards or so, then a 357 or 44 magnum rifle makes a lot of sense. Out of a 20-inch barrel, those suckers are moving. The problem is short stubby pistol bullets don't have really good long-range ability. Heck, the 444 Marlin, which is a RIFLE, was originally loaded with 240 grain 44 magnum bullets. When Speer(? I think it was) came up with a 265 grain bullet for use it that, its long-range capabilities got much better.

Any damage that a 2 or 4 or 6 inch pistol is gonna do - a 20-inch rifle is gonna do two to three times as much. And then, a 20" lever carbine carries eleven rounds (10+1), while most large caliber revolvers only hold six. Almost double the ammo. If, in a firefight, you have a break, you can top it off (tactical reload) without taking your gun out of action.

If I lived on a farm or a ranch, or hunted out west in the wide-open spaces, or maybe in the east on a bean-field, would a 20" 357 lever gun be my first choice for a hunting rifle, or better, my only rifle? No. I'd want a long-range gun. 308 or ought-six at a minimum.

But, if I lived where you could not see for 6 or 7 hundred yards, or for "urban security", then I'd rather have one of them than a Garand.

My daughter lives in a large town, in an apartment. Her anti-goblin medicine was a 5-shot J-frame 38. When I went to see her last, I left a 20" 357 lever gun. I didn't want to. I like that gun. Had it set up specially for goblins. Action job - smooooooooth. Better front sight. Receiver sight mounted (peep sights are much easier to pick up than leaf sights). So, yeah, I like that gun.

Like my daughter more.
 

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In the old west times, they would have a rifle and pistol use the same ammo. Using only one kind prevents problems- such as loading the wrong cartridge in the wrong gun, and it possibly getting stuck,
 

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So you gotta bug out, that rifle, and pistol that will accept the same cartridge means that you only have to bring along one caliber of ammo. The rifle makes the pistol cartridge more powerfull in that there is a longer time for the powder to burn. And the longer site radius makes the rifle a much more accurate tool at distance.
 

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I have taken four deer with .44 Mag revolvers and three with Carbine. The rifle bullet drops 4 inches at 100 yards so that was the limitation I placed on it. The revolvers I limited myself to 25 yards
 

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Bear in mind that all common rounds that are used are revolver rounds. Now consider that whatever velocity/energy generated by a round in a revolver is AFTER having much of the gas lost between the cylinder/barrel gap. And that all of this gas and resulting energy is captured in the closed chamber of a rifle. Resulting in significantly increased velocity/energy numbers.
The velocity/energy numbers of a .357 Mag fired in a rifle/carbine increase to nearly .44 Mag numbers. (Obviously w/o the heavier bullet weight impact punch).
And all with a very mild recoil. To quote the linked article. IMO .357 mag rifles ROCK!
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/chris-dumm/lever-action-ballistics-30-30-vs-357-magnum/
 

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I like my Marlin 1894 in .38/.357. It's a popular model in our gun club and across the UK for putting holes in paper. They are accruate, fun to shoot. Most of our shooting is at 25 yards; some at 50, some at less. Reloading is easy; components are relatively inexpensive.

Haven't heard much about hunting with these; most rabbbits are taken with .22 or pellet gun; deer and fox with full bore, so far as I know.

Gun usage for self defense is almost a non-issue here. Criminals with guns have no opposition. Fortunately gun crime occurs in larger cities where I am not.

We are made to feel safer by knowing that Scotland is, with it's new centralised police force, deploying flying armed police squads. That doesn't mean helicopters or planes, but rapid response cars. When seconds count, armed police are only minutes...or maybe an hour or so...away.
 

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In the old west times, they would have a rifle and pistol use the same ammo. Using only one kind prevents problems- such as loading the wrong cartridge in the wrong gun, and it possibly getting stuck,
There is a case of a Texas Ranger shoving a 45 Colt in the magazine of his 73 Winchester, and then having to take a break from the fight to use his pocket knife to remove the side plate, and clear the jam. Whether he held off the baddies with his pistol while doing his emergency gun-surgery, or whether he was one of a bunch, so the others kept shooting while he fixed it, I knoweth not. And, yes, if he had had a 44/40 pistol, he would not have had that problem.

That would only be a problem, though, if the rifle and pistol rounds were close to the same size (I can see the same thing happening if I put a 357 in the magazine of one of my 32/20s). But if you had a 45 Colt pistol and a 30/30 rifle, I don't see that mistake happening.
 

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Years ago, back East, I had a 336 marlin in 44 mag. It was a great little beat around gun for crawling in the rock piles and mnt laurel for deer. I shot a few deer with that gun over the years too. Only prob was I had to carry a screw driver with me. The pistol shells would often jam when reloading on that lever action. Had to take it apart many times in the woods; ha.
 

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There are a few pistol-caliber carbines that use the same magazines as pistols. The Hi Point carbine, for instance, comes in a few variations. You can get it set up to take Glock 17 or 22 mags, Beretta 92 or 96 mags, or SIG P226 mags (I think those are the options...and maybe others). Kel-tec has some models that are similar.

I can see a lot of value in getting a carbine that uses the same mags as my pistol. If I've already got a dozen Beretta mags, I'm not buying more just for the new gun, and I can use the same mags. Those two guns would be a lot more likely yo travel together because of that, whether it's a SHTF situation or just going to the range.
 

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I wouldn't mind having a carbine that takes .45 ACP.......
 

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As Black Eagle says, "When crime happens in the U.K. , the police are only 30, 45, 60 minutes away. They'll investigate after your family is injured or dead. That's why we provide our own protection,, and let the coroner investigate and remove. There's a State Police barracks 9 miles down the road, but it still would take time for them to arrive in time.
 

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I was chatting with a friend about this and don't really see the value of having a pistol caliber rifle that matches your handgun for self defense or security purposes.
How could you not see the value in this type of setup? Especially if both firearms take the same magazines, such as Lone Wolf's G9 and Glock handguns. My eventual goal is to acquire either a .22LR handgun or a 9mm rifle so that I can make one of those rounds my primary SD round.
 

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I have a PX4 and CX4 in 40 caliber. The two are just awesome in several ways. Same ammo, fairly accurate (depending on me), and same magazines. In my thinking (maybe questionable), the pistol is good out to maybe 25 yards and the carbine good to 100 yards. So the CX4 would possibly cover that 25-100 yard area of home defense. The CX4 is short enough to maneuver well. I also enjoy practicing with them, they are fun to shoot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
How could you not see the value in this type of setup? Especially if both firearms take the same magazines, such as Lone Wolf's G9 and Glock handguns. My eventual goal is to acquire either a .22LR handgun or a 9mm rifle so that I can make one of those rounds my primary SD round.
I live in a house.

Self defense and security type situations there are generaly less than 25 feet, probably less than 10, in my home.

So I don't see the need for a rifle here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There are a few pistol-caliber carbines that use the same magazines as pistols. The Hi Point carbine, for instance, comes in a few variations. You can get it set up to take Glock 17 or 22 mags, Beretta 92 or 96 mags, or SIG P226 mags (I think those are the options...and maybe others). Kel-tec has some models that are similar.

I can see a lot of value in getting a carbine that uses the same mags as my pistol. If I've already got a dozen Beretta mags, I'm not buying more just for the new gun, and I can use the same mags. Those two guns would be a lot more likely yo travel together because of that, whether it's a SHTF situation or just going to the range.
I had a Hi-Point 9mm - It's my #1 most disliked firearm I ever owned. Mine had very poor form fit and feel, as if it was toy. I suppose it shot OK, but could not warm up to it's poor workmanship.
 
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