Powder question

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by Guest, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    BlackGun
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    (10/12/01 3:13:53 pm)
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    I just emptied a can of WW231 and had a few grains left in the botton of the can, so I decided to put a match to it. Abuot 3 grains worth in a line. I set the match to it and it burned really slow. It didn't flash, just burned slowly,is this good or is the powder getting old and weak? I really kind of expected it to flash!

    Also I came into a couple hundred 200 Gr. lead SWC's the Speer book said to seat the bullet at to a total lengeth of 1.185. If I were to have done that it would have been beyond the cone. So I set the bullet to a total length of 1.210, so it would crimp just at the line where the cone starts, good or bad? right or wrong? The total bullet length was 0.620 and the case length was 0.893 giving mre a seeting depth of 0.303. this was using 4.6 Gr of WW231. What do you all think?
    rules for survival: Sight alignment, Breath control, & Trigger Squeeze
    BlackGUN

    Edited by: BlackGun at: 10/12/01 4:27:12 pm

    kdubaz
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    (10/12/01 7:02:31 pm)
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    1) The W-W ball powder burns slower than regular powder. The slow burn you noticed is quite normal.

    2) Seating the bullet at the crimp groove is the correct depth, providing the OAL cartridge length functions thru your firearm.

    3) 4.6 gr of WW 231 and a 200 gr lead SWC bullet of #452460 mold would be just above the starting load in the Lyman 47th Edition loading manual for a .45 Auto. It lists 4.0 gr starting and 6.0 gr as maximum, with a OAL of 1.61". Intrestingly, the #452630 mold bullet of the same weight shows a OAL of 1.235" and says 5.2 gr is a starting load for WW 231, and 6.5 gr as maximum.

    Don't know which type of bullet you have, there.
    Keep below the ridgeline!

    shooter22
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    (10/13/01 12:59:57 am)
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    BG, What ever you do, don't do that with all powders! burning rates vari greatly. That is one reason why there are regular primers and magnum primers. Magnum primers are usually used with slow podwers. Changing primer types and brands, and sizes will all affect pressure.

    shooter22



    BlackGun
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    (10/13/01 12:33:39 pm)
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    OK< Now this bring up another question, one books says use this amout of powder for that bullet and ie speer book say 4.6 of WW231 to a max of 5 Gr.'s the Hodgdons books says 5.0 to 5.8 Gr. what's the best rule of thumb to use. I sure don't want to blow my hand off with a bad powder charge?
    rules for survival: Sight alignment, Breath control, & Trigger Squeeze
    BlackGUN

    kdubaz
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    (10/13/01 5:48:49 pm)
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    I've got just about all the most recent loading manuals, yet have the most faith in the Lyman books. They are all pretty conservative (liability suits?) in their loadings, so I wouldn't worry about a 4.6 gr load with the 200 gr lead bullet. That's a pretty mild loading.

    The question of variance between the manuals has to do with type of testing apparatus, bullets, primers, powder lots and mfg of cases. Barrel length varies and the type of action used has a lot of influence. Also, the coronographs all vary in readings, plus ambient tempratures and humidity levels when the testing was done. You'll just have to pick one of the loading manuals you feel most comfortable with and use its data.
    Keep below the ridgeline!

    shooter22
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    (10/14/01 12:06:30 am)
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    I truely believe that all reloading manuels stay well within the safety ratings as far as pressures go. They do this to counter people using different primers, too tight crimp, seating too deep, or too shallow. I acutally got this reply from a reloading book techinal assistant. There are a few guys on 1911forum.com and the Firing Line that load ungodly over the maxes and still have not blown stuff up. These reloading data sources along with the barrel makers making barrels that hold up to more that industry standards, keep things well in the safe zone. I have never had a load that I got out of a book give any signs of excess pressure.

    shooter22



    kdubaz
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    (10/14/01 5:02:35 pm)
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    What .22 says, BG

    Load up and go have fun!
    Keep below the ridgeline!
     
  2. USAFNodak

    USAFNodak New Member

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    I just started my reloading with an RCBS set up. I am loading some .270 with IMR4350 powder. My powder measure seems to bind due to the powder grains being "mechanical pencil" like in shape and somewhat hard. I did like the manual said and ran a pound of powder through the measure, which seemed to help some but it still wants to bind quite often. Any suggestions from the experienced reloaders out there?
     

  3. muddober

    muddober Active Member

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    What you are experiencing is a very common situation, notice I did not call it a problem. What you do need to do is don't stop, meaning keep pulling the handle through. What you are really doing is cutting a few grains of powder in two which does not hurt a thing. If it really bothers you I can suggest that perhaps you buy some 4350 short cut and if they don't make 4350 in short cut I know they do in 4831 which also works well in a 270. I usually don't drop powder directly in my hunting rifle cases because I usually don't load that many rounds. Rather I drop the powder into a powder pan, I deliberately dump light then setting the pan on an electronic scale I add a grain or two with one of those little powder dribblers to get the desired charge. There is a guy in Oregon who makes a powder measurer that does not cut the powder, however when it was all said and done I have about 500 bucks in a powder measurer and I wouldn't do it again.

    The one very important thing that I like to share with new people to reloading is don't even think about making up a light load of 4350 or any other slow burning powder (light meaning 50% of normal) as it will blow a gun into far more pieces than any overload usually killing the shooter. Should you want know why drop me a note and I will explain.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2008
  4. 312shooter

    312shooter Well-Known Member

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    You are using a extruded base tubular shaped powder which is going to be a headache if you want to load any quantity, the "cutting" you are experiencing was enough for me to go with ball powders when loading 308 Check your data - most if not all IMR powder is tubular, look for Hodgdon - H414 or H380 is ball, also Winchester 760 is claimed to be very favorable in the 270 according to good 'ol Lyman, hope this helps....
     
  5. USAFNodak

    USAFNodak New Member

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    Thank you muddober and 312shooter. You've provided some good input and suggestions.
     
  6. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    Yup, 4350 and most "long-grain" extruded powders will tend to hang up in a rotary drum powder measure and you'll shear a few grains as you meter each charge. It will probably get a little better as the measure gets slicked up from use but the measure will always do it a bit with those types of powders.

    As mentioned, try using one of the spherical powders. WW760 does work pretty good in the .270. I use it with 130gr loads in my own .270 and in dad's .270.

    Another thing you can look for is some of the newer "short-cut" extruded powders. Hodgdon makes a short grain version of their H4831. It's sold as H4831SC. I've had very good luck using H4831 & H4831SC with both 130gr and 150gr bullets in my dad's .270. It's a slower burning powder than 4350, but is one of the classic "text-book" powders for the .270.

    When measuring those extruded powders, it's helps to be very consistent when you "throw" the charge...use a sharp snap up of the handle to dump the charge and another sharp snap down to reset for the next charge. Don't hammer it, but a good consistent quick flick of the lever will help you meter consistent charges each cycle. You're gonna shear a few grains so that'll just be something to live with.

    Welcome to TFF...I'm assuming that you're up around the Grand Forks area?
     
  7. muddober

    muddober Active Member

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    You are welcome and Bindernut explained the dumping process better then I did.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2008
  8. Oncefiredbrass.net

    Oncefiredbrass.net New Member

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    I also use the .231 I have done the match test before but with a larger amount drawn across the concrete between that and the Vectan Ba-10. The Ba-10 flew thorugh it really quick and the .231 just sat there. I Love the .231 powder. Its a little slower to burn. I dont think powder really gets old unless its 10 years or older I assume.
     
  9. FJF0311

    FJF0311 New Member

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    Progressive powders don't burn at a constant rate. Many will burn very slowly when totally exposed. But when confined, as pressure increases, so dose the burn rate.
     
  10. USAFNodak

    USAFNodak New Member

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    Bindernut posted:
    Thanks for your inputs. I was up at GFAFB in the mid to late seventies doing maintenence work (electrical) on the Minuteman Silos. I'm now down in the Twin Cities area.