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Discussion Starter #1
I'm a little confused on this topic. WHAT is the difference between crimp removal/pocket cleaning and the swage routine? I've read the sales info on the swage products but don't understand it. Can anyone explain it at ground level (dumb it down if necessary)?

While waiting for my neck trimmer to arrive I have resized about 300 rounds of .223 and noticed that about 10 of them would not let the Lyman primer hole cleaner get inside. Are these the ones I need to "de-bur" to rid the crimp or do I de-bur all of them? I've tried looking for the differences in crimped and non-crimped but I can't tell the difference.

I know in another month I'll look back at these stupid questions, but for now I have to ask them.

Help Please...

Mike
 

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No stupid questions here, dealing with deadly potential consequences in some cases.

crimp removal and swaging are both dealing with the same issue; crimped primers. Once the primer has been seated, it gets a "usually" round crimp around it to apply pressure to assure that it stays in place no matter what happens to the ammo.

Pocket cleaning is just running a brush inside the pocket to clean out the crud aka primer residue.

If you google "primer crimp", you will find images of what a crimped primer looks like.

You'll also feel more pressure while depriming these rounds, I sort mine by feel while depriming. I use a handheld pocket reamer to remove the crimp. This tool actually removes a very small amount of brass.

Swaging is the use of force to reform the pocket and it does not remove any brass, the pressure exerted put the pocket back to spec.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
OK... When do I swag and when do I ream? Do I need both or either. And how does swaging reform the pocket? How does it make the hole smaller without deforming everything?
 

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swage tools are generally more spendy than reamers.. though there are plenty of reamer tools out there.

many prefer to swage so as to not remove brass.. I ream.. it's very little brass as mentioned.. and only needs to be done once.

i have a lyman automatic case prep center.. id/od debur, primer pocket clean and true, primer pocket reamer and flash hole true.

some people go a cheaper route and carefully use a drill with a countersink bit to ead the outter edge of the crimp out.. etc..
 

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OK... When do I swag and when do I ream? Do I need both or either. And how does swaging reform the pocket? How does it make the hole smaller without deforming everything?
The crimp that needs to be removed is normally on NATO or Military brass. The way I understand the purpose of that crimp is to keep moisture out of the primer (but I'm not sure I buy that explanation).

When you deprime/resize the military brass, you will see a distinctive "ring" inside of the primer pocket. The attached picture shows a pretty good representation of a primer crimp, you can see the "ring" pretty clear. When you attempt to seat a new primer in this pocket, you will meet a good bit of resistance. Kinda like putting a 1.25 inch peg into a 1 inch hole, it ain't gonna fit with out some help.

When you swage it, you are not removing the crimp. It does not make the hole smaller, it makes it bigger. What you are basically doing is pushing the opening the primer pocket a tiny bit to allow the new primer to fit. When you ream it, you are taking some kind of cutting tool and removing that crimp, again making the primer pocket bigger.

So, both reaming and swaging are getting you to the same place by enlarging the primer pocket. You just need to decide which way you want to go. There are many different tools you can use for either way you choose to go!!

I hope this broke the explanation down a little for you!
 

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MaxACL:

The cases with crimped-in primers are usually ex-Military. The crimp pushes metal over the edge of the primer cup. Most sizing dies remove the primer but leave the rolled over edge of the primer cup in the brass case. So the hole is the right diameter near the bottom but the entrance to it is partially blocked by the brass protruding into the cup area at the top.

To remove this burr of metal on the edge of the cup you can either cut it off with a primer cup reamer or push it out of the way with a swage tool. Reaming is obvious as it is just a cutter that chamfers the edge of the cup much as you might do with a pocket knife to remove a burred edge on any metal. The swage tool uses pressure to push the brass burr out of the way (a lot of pressure!).

Either method works. You only have to choose one. The reaming tools are inexpensive and can be as simple as a countersinking tool bit you get at the hardware store. Reaming tools specifically made for primer pocket reaming are not that expensive and work either with a motor powered tool like a power drill or a drill press or just by hand. Some not only remove the burr but clean out any residue left by primer ignition.

When you brush out the primer pockets with a small brush all you do is remove the residue. You don't have to but it is best if you brush out the empty primer pocket with each reload of the cases. Reaming or swaging is only done once, the first time you reload the cases that have the crimp in the primer cup.

To determine which cases needs the primer pockets reamed or swaged you can measure them with calipers or a go-no-go gage you make. You can probably find a number drill at the hardware store that fits close enough in a primer pocket known not to need crimp removal to do this comparison measurement. If you try to push a new primer into a case that still has the crimp then the primer will collapse and be ruined. You must get the crimp out. It would not hurt to use one of the primer pocket uniformer cutting tools (one for small and one for large primers) in all the cases the first time.

LDBennett
 

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I found about 15 WCC in a mixed batch of 500 one time fired brass. I seated two primers into them with no problems. The bottom of the case is pretty scuffed up and does not look like one time fired. Maybe about 6. SO I guess these have been decrimped and loaded before. If I see the crimp ring on any others I will just toss them
 

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Don't throw them away, removing the crimp is really easy. Use the same tool that you use to chamfer the mouth of the case!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK, the big light bulb has clicked on. For the time being and according to the wife's budget (my allowance), I'll go with the countersink tool from Ace Hardware.

Looking at the difference between Lyman and RCBS... Lyman runs about $131 and the RCBS is slightly cheaper but the small print says it doesn't include the bla... bla... bla. Can you guys compare apples to apples?

On another note, I should receive today the "Little Crow Gunworks World's Finest Trimmer 223 Remington" to trim my cases. Is this a well spent $70?

And by the way, thanks for the info on the primer pocket thing.
 
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On another note, I should receive today the "Little Crow Gunworks World's Finest Trimmer 223 Remington" to trim my cases. Is this a well spent $70?

And by the way, thanks for the info on the primer pocket thing.
I have been wanting one since I seen them a few years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
cpttango30 (I have been wanting one since I seen them a few years ago.)

I'll let you know.
 

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OK, the big light bulb has clicked on. For the time being and according to the wife's budget (my allowance), I'll go with the countersink tool from Ace Hardware.

Looking at the difference between Lyman and RCBS... Lyman runs about $131 and the RCBS is slightly cheaper but the small print says it doesn't include the bla... bla... bla. Can you guys compare apples to apples?

On another note, I should receive today the "Little Crow Gunworks World's Finest Trimmer 223 Remington" to trim my cases. Is this a well spent $70?

And by the way, thanks for the info on the primer pocket thing.
remember.. you can get just the hand tools for case care and not the expensive automatic tools..e tc..
 

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Looking at the difference between Lyman and RCBS... Lyman runs about $131 and the RCBS is slightly cheaper but the small print says it doesn't include the bla... bla... bla. Can you guys compare apples to apples?
If you are talking about the electric Case Prep Centers, here is a link to the RCBS tool at MidwayUSA: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/565099/rcbs-trim-mate-case-prep-center-110-volt this one does have the attachment for removing the crimp.

and the Lyman Case Prep Center: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/211733/lyman-case-prep-xpress-case-prep-center-110-volt

I bought myself the Lyman one a few months ago and I really do like it. At the time, it was much cheaper than the RCBS but I see that has reversed. Either one of them will take the hassle out of deburring/chamfering and taking out that dreaded primer crimp.
 

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You've gotten a lot of good answers and there ain't much I can add. When I first encountered crimped in primers and being a lifelong machinist/mechanic, I immediately thought of a countersink. I use a plain old 60 degree, high speed steel countersink. I had a half dozen laying around in my tool box and grabbed one, a couple twists and crimp is gone. http://www.mcmaster.com/#countersinks/=m5wxzq Available in most good hardware stores and usually under $10.00...
 

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You can also use your hand deburring tool. Just chuck it in your drill and then debur it out.
 

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You've gotten a lot of good answers and there ain't much I can add. When I first encountered crimped in primers and being a lifelong machinist/mechanic, I immediately thought of a countersink. I use a plain old 60 degree, high speed steel countersink. I had a half dozen laying around in my tool box and grabbed one, a couple twists and crimp is gone. http://www.mcmaster.com/#countersinks/=m5wxzq Available in most good hardware stores and usually under $10.00...
heck.. under 2$ nowadays.. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
gdmoody, Reading the fine print, the Lyman will still be a lot cheaper:

RCBS... "Operation Performed: Chamfering, deburring, primer pocket cleaning, military crimp removal and flash hole deburring
Features: 5 Gear driven heads for effortless case preparation
Notes: Does not include: Primer Pocket uniformers, military crimp removers or flash hole deburring tools (all of these items are available separately) "

This is in the info area of the RCBS.
 

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if it's like the lyman.. you just add the lil screw on tools.. etc..
 

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gdmoody,

This is in the info area of the RCBS.
I didn't read that far down, I use the chamfering attachment to remove the crimp. It does the same job with no added expense.
 

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the chamfer tool from who? rcbs or lyman? the chamfer tool i have from lyman will bottom in a LRP pocket before touching the sides to remove a milcrimp. you can hold it at an angle and it may (should ) work i guess.
 
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