[ironsight65]

I was buying primers the other day at my local gun range and the guy selling them to me told me he uses small rifle primers in place of small pistol primers for his loads because small pistol have been very hard to come by lately. He said he has read about it before and has not had any problems, he just back the charge off by 10 percent.
Just wanted to ask if anyone has any experience or concerns with this?

Thanks

 

[Alpo]

I know small rile primers are harder than small pistol. I had to switch to WW from CCI because my hammerless 38s could not pop CCI primers. WW have softer caps. If I was using SR in single action revolvers, which normally have a long, heavy hammer fall, I don't think I'd be worried. Pocket pistols, though - SW 642, PPK - like that, I wouldn't trust 'em

And that's not even considering what the hotter primer would do to the burning rate of the charge. It's fine to say, "Oh, just back off ten percent", but I've grown kinda fond of my hand. Been at the end of my arm for a long time, and I'd like it to be there for many more years.

I tend not to take the word of people I meet in gunshops. I've found that many of them are morons.

 

[LDBennett]

Alpo said:

"I tend not to take the word of people I meet in gunshops. I've found that many of them are morons."

That goes for the guy or gal behind the counter at the gun store. Some of the biggest lies I ever got were from a gun store owner. After the last lie I never went back to that gun store.

LDBennett

 

[steve4102]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=104555

http://www.google.com/search?q=smal...istol+vs+small+rifle&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[soundguy]

Alpo said:

"I tend not to take the word of people I meet in gunshops. I've found that many of them are morons."

That goes for the guy or gal behind the counter at the gun store. Some of the biggest lies I ever got were from a gun store owner. After the last lie I never went back to that gun store.

LDBennett

i heard that.

I had a dealer trying to sell me a keltec KSG. I had already read up on it, and asked him a few questions about the mag tub feed/cutoff system.

he went on to explain that witht he switch one way it fed off one tube.. and the other way it fed off the other tube, and int he middle, it fed one from each tube, alternating sides on each pump

what a load of BS

 

[LDBennett]

When I retired my passion was building Vintage motorcycles, usually with better components than they came with originally, mostly for dual sport or off road, or Vintage MX racing. Anyway, I had to buy parts all over the USA. One local dealer never had the best prices but if I asked him a question he might offer his experience but if he didn't know he would say so rather than BS me. I followed his advice almost blindly and I never suffered once from it because there was no BS, just known valid facts. I always went to him for my parts if he had them or could get them. I really appreciated that he never BS'ed me. Unfortunately my friendly dealer passed away last year...What a loss for the British vintage scene!

The gun dealer I referenced in the earlier post always had an opinion, stated with total authority. I soon learned not to trust his opinions and advice. The straw that broke the camel's back was when he told me about a Hi Std pistol that he was about to get traded in. I told him based on his description I wanted the gun and offered to leave a deposit but he said that was not necessary and that he would call when it came in... No call ever came so I visited him to ask about it and he nonchalantly said he sold it to a buddy who was standing there when the gun came in. That was it for me. He never got another dollar from me and I bought several guns from him up to that point. Never again! Interestingly, when CZ entered the USA market they called me to ask me to be a dealer (I at one point had an FFL). So I set this dealer up with CZ and he became a CZ dealer. He never would recognize that it was me that got him connected to CZ. He was a CZ lover too. Although the dealer has since sold the gun store and actually belongs to the same gun club as me, I would not give him the time of day if I ever saw him again.

There is something to sales people who don't give out BS and are not afraid of saying that they just don't know the answer to your question or don't lead you on.

LDBennett

 

[ozo]

I wouldn't substitute them.

And gunstores....
they are full of experts,
owners, employees, and customers alike.....

 

[Freebore]

Behind the counter morons ???.....if you have ever the opportunity to work behind the counter you would have a much different view of the shooting public. I once handed a customer a new out of the box Colt SAA, and the first thing he did was free wheel the cylinder and pull back the hammer to stop it form spinning I politely explained to him that that type of handling is for owners only, not lookers. I've had people drop guns, bang them on the counter, point them at myself (and others), and ask the most stupid questions one could possibly think of (you knew that they're only knowledge of guns came out of Hollywood). So morons actually are on both sides of the counter as well.

 

[ozo]

Behind the counter morons ???.....if you have ever the opportunity to work behind the counter you would have a much different view of the shooting public. I once handed a customer a new out of the box Colt SAA, and the first thing he did was free wheel the cylinder and pull back the hammer to stop it form spinning I politely explained to him that that type of handling is for owners only, not lookers. I've had people drop guns, bang them on the counter, point them at myself (and others), and ask the most stupid questions one could possibly think of (you knew that they're only knowledge of guns came out of Hollywood). So morons actually are on both sides of the counter as well.

My exact point [post #7]

 

[aa1911]

there was a new guy working at my LGS last week when I stopped in and he told another customer he was a Navy SEAL.... sure, maybe about 100 pounds ago....

Just because someone is working at a gunstore doesn't mean they know anything about guns!

don't sub primers out is my recommendation. shop around or just wait a bit, they'll all come back in stock.

 

[oldfartrr]

Alpo said:

"I tend not to take the word of people I meet in gunshops. I've found that many of them are morons."

That goes for the guy or gal behind the counter at the gun store. Some of the biggest lies I ever got were from a gun store owner. After the last lie I never went back to that gun store.

LDBennett

hear ya there,, had the owner of one shop try to tell me that a .40 was a junk caliber and i should buy a .25 raven instead cause it was easier to carry.. never been inside that shop again

 

[LDBennett]

Pointing the gun at the gun store clerk?

I went into one gun store to buy a gun and the kid pulls the gun out of the display case, checks it for being loaded (GOOD!) hands it to me and he sees me to double check to see if it is loaded (GOOD, too!). Then he positions himself directly in front of me behind the counter. I inspect the gun as anyone would do interested in seeing what the gun really looked like and the stupid kid gives me a very hard time for pointing the gun at him. Now, I'm the customer and I should always be right. If he had any sense he would have moved out of in front of me if it bothered him so much. Every clerk in that store had an attitude, never smiled, never said a kind word. I bought the gun because they were the only gun store that had the one I wanted. I got more attitude when I went back to pick up the gun after the waiting period. I never bought another gun from that store. I don't need attitude when I buy anything. Attitude is as bad as BS!

LDBennett

 

[steve4102]

I would agree that there are plenty of so called experts behind and in front of your LGS counter. It is possible however that some of these experts really are experts and may know a thing or two that you do not.

Take this guy that uses rifle primers in his pistols. Expert or idiot? Well lets take a look at what he said.

the guy selling them to me told me he uses small rifle primers in place of small pistol primers for his loads because small pistol have been very hard to come by lately.

Many would just take this with a grain of salt and consider him a LGS idiot. Others like ironsight65 would take it a step further and ask about this on a reloading forum. As you can see most on this forum consider the LGS guy an idiot or a moron.

Then there are those that would go straight to the source, the primer manufacturers. Like this guy.

I posted this on another site last summer and forgot about it. I happened to find my MSWord document of it so I thought I'd share. This is from a conversation on June 14, 2009 with CCI's tech dept.

I called not to complain about availability, but rather to discuss the technical differences between their primer types. I was put in touch with one of their tech reps who was very happy to discuss their primers. BTW, She mentioned that she had worked there 38 yrs and never seen anything even close to this kind of demand.

Then she said that they can produce 3 million primer per day flat out (which they are currently running) but have currently over 1 Billion back ordered. Unfortunately, that means that if all new orders stopped completely today. Everything; ammo, gov't, and component, it would take almost a year running flat out to catch up.

Anyway, I was asking about the cup thickness, formula differences, and formula amount differences between their #500 (SP), #550 (SPM), and #400 (SR). She had me hold a minute to get the detail specs up on her screen and this is what she said.

Cup thickness: The #500 has a thinner cup than either the #550 or #400, however, both the #550 and #400 have the same cup dimensions (including thickness).

Flash powder formula: All three sizes use the same formula for the flash powder.

Flash powder amount: The #500 has a slightly smaller amount (3 micrograms) than the #550 or #400 which both have the same amount.

I asked if the SR primers could be used as an acceptable substitute for the SPM primers. She compared the #550 and #400 and then replied that yes, they appeared to have the same specs, same dimensions, same cup thickness, same formula, and same amount of flash powder. She even noted that the SPM primers were slightly taller than the SP primers and were spec'd the same dimensions as the #400.

I asked if she knew any reason not to just use SR primers for both magnum pistol and rifle applications based upon that information and she said that many there only bought rifle primers and used them for all their reloading, magnum or not. The only exception being for custom pistols where the thicker rifle cup contributed to misfires, which she said only occurred in custom race pistols.

There you have it. Now, is the LGS guy and expert or an idiot/moron?

 

[LDBennett]

steve4102:

While this info is revealing, it may only be good for CCI primers. The same kind of discussion has to go on with Winchester and Remington and other manufacturer of primers you may choose to use.

I am taken back that CCI would even reveal this kind of information let alone suggest the use of rifle primers in any pistol cartridge. The liability is there for them and I'm sure their lawyers would not approve.

It is not that I don't approve of such uses, as I do it myself under certain circumstances. It just floors me that CCI would suggest it on the phone over the obviously different requirement of their published data. The lawyers don't know about this, I'm sure.

As for the primer backlog, this happened four years ago. It took almsot a year for some of the reloading supplies to catch up. But the demand is not a constant. It peaks as reloaders stock up, then the market is saturated, and finally the demand falls. The demand seen now is to catch up with the recent sales but it will catchup and return to normal assuming there is no bad news out of Washington DC (like the control of reloading components).

Of the 50+ % of the country that voted for Obama there has to be some of them that are gun owners. I hope they get their full fill of what has now happened with their support of this super liberal progressive politician who will have it only his way. He is anti-gun and especially military style guns. I have hopes (based on the fact that politicians need to get re-elected) that Congress will not be able to enact any gun law changes but in today's society who knows?

LDBennett

 

[ironsight65]

Thanks for all the input and discussion. For the record, the guy at the gun range did not come off as a know it all, in fact he did encourage another customer there to research it for himself. As for myself I would not make it a practice to sub the primers unless I was in dire need and could not get the small pistol primers at all, but I was very curious to see if anyone here had heard of such a thing. Thanks again for all the replies. It is great to have such a wealth of knowledge, experience, and opinions to tap into.

 

[steve4102]

Here is an interesting read on primers. Note the use of SR primers as well.

http://38super.net/Pages/Primers.html

 

[langenc]

The only subbing like that is small pistol primers in 22 Hornet loads.

Works great.

 

[langenc]

steve4102:

While this info is revealing, it may only be good for CCI primers. The same kind of discussion has to go on with Winchester and Remington and other manufacturer of primers you may choose to use.

I am taken back that CCI would even reveal this kind of information let alone suggest the use of rifle primers in any pistol cartridge. The liability is there for them and I'm sure their lawyers would not approve.

It is not that I don't approve of such uses, as I do it myself under certain circumstances. It just floors me that CCI would suggest it on the phone over the obviously different requirement of their published data. The lawyers don't know about this, I'm sure.

As for the primer backlog, this happened four years ago. It took almsot a year for some of the reloading supplies to catch up. But the demand is not a constant. It peaks as reloaders stock up, then the market is saturated, and finally the demand falls. The demand seen now is to catch up with the recent sales but it will catchup and return to normal assuming there is no bad news out of Washington DC (like the control of reloading components).

Of the 50+ % of the country that voted for Obama there has to be some of them that are gun owners. I hope they get their full fill of what has now happened with their support of this super liberal progressive politician who will have it only his way. He is anti-gun and especially military style guns. I have hopes (based on the fact that politicians need to get re-elected) that Congress will not be able to enact any gun law changes but in today's society who knows?

LDBennett

With all these shooters buying everything in sight you can bet the next couple years will be short on buyers. Some of the current 'buyers' may never buy again or use what they have purchased.