Question and opinions please.. ( 1 2 3 4 5 )

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ruffitt, Mar 8, 2003.

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  1. ruffitt

    ruffitt Guest

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    bondai
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    (4/2/02 1:23:20 pm)
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    We have all seen and followed to some extent the recent media focus on pedophiles and child pornographers.

    I think we are all in agreement that these people are the lowest form of life and should face the maximum punishment the law allows. The courts have decided that child pornography is not protected under the 1st amendment.

    My question is this. Is the posting, transmittal and sale of drawings of children engaged in sexual acts also considered child porn ? How about well known animated cartoon characters depicting children engaged in sex or explicit sexual poses, is that child porn ? and if it is should the people who deal in this trash be treated like every other freak who gets off looking at children ?

    Opinions please.



    Zigzag2
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    (4/2/02 1:45:24 pm)
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    and what about the Parents that were reported last week, allowing their childern to be photographed in risque' poses, and aired on the web. Claiming that it will help promote their modeling careers! I say B LLS#!?

    AGunguy
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    (4/2/02 2:24:29 pm)
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    Didn't they just bust up a big ring of child smut peddlers, which included: Priest, cops, school principal, school bus driver, and who knows who else was in on it.

    Now, I don't want to raise too much of a stink about these fine folks, as some of you out there may think their civil rights are being encroached upon. As you may have friends who are in these professions.

    No doubt there is some serious moral degeneration going on with these people, but far be for me to point that out with any uncouth emphases.

    Gunguy

    warpig883
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    (4/2/02 3:33:33 pm)
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    It does not matter if it is drawing or cartoon characters it is evil and wrong.

    Abbess Ectoplasm
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    (4/2/02 4:10:53 pm)
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    How about well known animated cartoon characters depicting children engaged in sex or explicit sexual poses,

    which well known cartoons are you referring to?

    Xracer
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    (4/2/02 4:56:05 pm)
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    Abby.....believe it or not, many, many years ago, porn movies were known in the (photography) profession as "Mickey Mouse" Movies.

    bondai
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    (4/2/02 5:39:28 pm)
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    For example: Simpson's character's



    Abbess Ectoplasm
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    (4/2/02 6:26:29 pm)
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    um, my name is not Abby

    and bondai, the simpsons are riddled with all sorts of innuendos, the most common being ganja references, and it's not necessarily a children's cartoon

    putting the Simpson's together with ellicit "cartoons" such as japanese hentai are two different things all together

    LIKTOSHOOT
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    (4/2/02 6:28:42 pm)
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    So now, cartoons are people? Much like PETA, says animals are people and have rights.......toons have rights too, now, I guess.....makes since to me. We all know cartoons made us all violent, thats why they censored them years ago.....No more splat, pow, biff-bap, boom. Just attach children to it, works every time. Guns, Porn, Drugs.....anything, since it can`t stand on it`s own merit, add children to further the cause and raise the boiling point.............................
    T.F.F.

    bondai
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    (4/2/02 6:38:40 pm)
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    Abbess

    OK I can see you are confused and want to split hairs.I'm not talking about Hentai or trying to make any connection between that crap and anything else. Forget the Simpsons. How about the Flintstones or the Jetsons ?

    A very simple question was asked. DO YOU THINK THAT DRAWINGS OF CHILDREN ENGAGED IN SEXUAL ACTIVITIES OR POSED IN SEXUALLY EXPLICIT WAYS IS A FORM OF CHILD PORNOGRAPHY ?


    Edited by: bondai at: 4/2/02 6:47:24 pm

    AGunguy
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    Abbes, what is Japanese hentai? Is it some kind of animated cartoon show on TV.

    LTS, what or who's pot are you referring to getting stirred up?

    I thought the main stay of this discussion was about the perverts associated with child pornography.

    GG

    Edited by: AGunguy at: 4/2/02 6:46:43 pm

    Abbess Ectoplasm
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    (4/2/02 6:48:54 pm)
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    you don't know what hentai is??

    do a google search

    bondai, didn't want to split hairs here about cartoons... and I am definitely against pornography of any kind... but I'm just a youngin and grew up w/ all kinds of violent 'toons, so my opinion about them might be a little bit different.

    needleace
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    As LBJ said- I am with heavy heart.
    The child porn thing hit too close to home. A friend of mine
    was pulled in andindicted. You just never know. I'm saddened, nauseated and angry all at the same time. I'm saddened because this man was a hard worker, an expert in his field, to those who knew him-a friend, and a helper of others in need. It gravely saddens me he feels the need to have such material, and he needs pity and psychiatric help. It also shows me what a hypocrit I am, for if I hadn't had a friend involved, I be up for castrating them all.
    I'm nauseated because of this child porn thing. I believe
    that if you're an adult and whatever winds your watch in
    the privacy of your home (with the exception of the
    underaged) is OK. Even this R. O'donnell thing makes want
    to puke. Children should be exempt from this and I do
    agree with the Feds that child pornography of any sort shouldn't be available on the internet.
    I am pissed because this A.M. when I jumped on the stationary bike, flipped on the TV, Memphis channel 5,
    and there's my friend holding his jailhouse number in front of him on the morning news. Indicted, not convicted. If he's convicted then I say- yes, put his picture up if they must.
    But, now regardless of what happens with the verdict
    he's marred for life. That's the only thing the public will remember. It just goes to show that it doesn't matter whether you're guilty or innocent, the media has a right to smear your name without a trial.
    No one is exempt!
    I can't figure out whether I want to cry, blow chow or shoot something.

    HerbyJr
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    (4/2/02 9:21:19 pm)
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    Hey Abbess,

    Don't think violent cartoons are a new thing. Wiley Coyote, Roadrunner, Popeye, Bugs...These guys are some of the most violent characters on TV. But...they are CARTOONS! I don't think they urged my violent streak.


    H.
    CLICK HERE to visit Hawg Ryder's All HD Tech Forum

    TallTLynn
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    (4/2/02 9:43:46 pm)
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    Child pornography in itself is not good as far as I'm concerned.

    Now in regards to using cartoon child pornography? It's just a way to get around the laws and it is still sick.

    T out!

    barbon
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    (4/3/02 12:57:06 am)
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    Good evening all,

    Here are some of my thoughts on this as I had just been reading some of the news articles on the little girls
    "model sites".

    First some history.
    Child pornography and its partner pedophilia or any pornography, or to be more exact the concept of pornography, meaning sexual acts or cond uct
    not acceptable to the current mores and morals of Western
    Civilization, is a relatively new concept. In fact, it is so new
    that it did not gain any notice or acceptance as a sexual deviation until the middle of the 20th
    Century.

    In the Ancient World children were viewed as property or
    just small people. Children were married, prostituted, and
    used as sexual objects the same as adults. There was no
    distinction between a sex act with a child or an adult.

    There were sexual drawings, carvings and writings. In temples in India there are drawings and carvings of various
    sexual acts that although very explicit, they are not considered "pornographic". Much of the statuary of Ancient
    Greece and Rome are so graphic that even today, in our enlightened age, if one of the statues are displayed in public, there is always someone to protest that the depiction of the genetalia are pornographic..

    Various writings from the Ancient World, even though they
    are very sexually explicit, they are not considered "pornographic". In the Jewish Scripture and the Christian Bible there is a book called "The Song of Songs", or "The
    Canticle of Canticles" that records some old Canaanite
    wedding and fertility songs or poems. It gets very graphic.
    Yeah, I know that the Church says that it is prophecy
    fortelling the passion of Christ for the Church. There existed an underground press of sexual writing that was no
    different from that of today. Mark Twain wrote a story of
    child sex that was written as if it had been written during the middle ages. (The girl was 15, which was not a child at that time.) It is very graphic.

    From Ancient times children (especially girls) were sex partners. Men bred their wives or concubines to produce children. Until modern times this was the only way to ensure that the adult would be cared for in his/her old age.
    The children were used for sexual gratification. To be blunt
    the fathers liked the "young firm ones".

    Child prostitution was rampant in England during the Victorian era. As it was in the rest of Europe and to a lesser extent in the Americas.

    Have you ever seen the photos of Alice Liddell by Lewis Carrol? Her parents approved of her friendship with Carrol.
    As did the parents of the rest of the girls.

    Johnny Appleseed always had a bit of ribbon or other pretties for the little girls, and would have them sit in his lap while he combed their hair and told them stories.

    A State that will remain nameless here (mainly because I
    have forgotten which one), marriage of 10 year olds was
    legal,just needed a judges consent, until the 1960s.


    Does anyone remember the Tijuana Bibles or Little Blue Books that were around in the 40s and 50s? It showed popular cartoon characters (and the drawings were very
    good) in all kinds of sexual situations. Dagwood and Blondie and the kids. Little Orphan Annie, Jiggs and Maggie, The Katzenjammer Kids, almost all of the popular
    cartoons of the day.

    One of the little girl model sites had, at the time a news article was written, 9000 members, at $50 dollars a month. Some of them only charge $25 dollars a month, for the girls "college fund". Members are supposed to be kids,
    especially other little girls. Yeah, right. I have seen some of these photos. One of the little girl's mom was a feature
    in a porn web site some years back, (according to the news article). Would I skin the perpetrators and nail their hides to the barn? Yes. Do I think it's porn? Yes, and I haven't seen the photos the members see. Just the photos
    on the initial web page.

    The government study of pornography done a few years back defines pornography as "any thing that damages the
    psyche". Huh?

    Using that definition what is pornographic? Let's say that
    a child sees a movie that causes great anguish, during the movie and afterwards. The child has nightmares
    about the movie. Is that movie pornographic? According to
    the government study it is. Ever been to a Walt Disney
    movie by the name of Pinnochio? Ever witness the heartbreak of the little kids in the theater during the movie? Ever had to deal with a
    child who was traumatized by the movie? The main theme of this thing is rejection, either real or imagined.

    I submit to you the statement that Pinnochio is a pornographic movie.


    So is pornography sexual, or is it "anything that damages
    the psyche"?

    Some years ago an anti-porn activist was arrested for
    distributing porn. This person had a very large collection of porn, movies, books, etc. The defense was that the
    crusaders against it had to be familiar with it.

    So priests like altar boys. This is not exactly new. Of course not all priests, just enough to make for comment.
    The vast majority of priests are truly dedicated and commited people, trustworthy, and without fault.
    Anybody remember Jimmy Swaggart and the prostitute?

    What is pornography? Is it sexual deviation, sexual ennuendo in any medium, violence in any medium, or what?

    For the record I'm against it. I can't define it, but I know it
    when I see it.

    Abess made a point about growing up exposed to more violent cartoons than some of the group.

    I was a child during WWII and the Korean War. I was exposed to violent cartoons (anyone remember Terry and the Pirates?). I was exposed to violent newsreels in the movie theaters. We had news magazines that had pictures of the European Horror.

    I have had friends with numbers tattooed on their wrists, evidence of man's inhumanity to man, these people were tested in the Nazi horror. They are some of the most sane, stable people I ever met.

    Does sexual activity, violence, exposure to violence, violence to one's person or other mayhem harm children or
    adults for that matter? Is it detrimental to the normal
    developement or well-being of the individual?
    I don't know.

    Bondai, to answer the question, yes I think it is child pornography.
    .

    If anybody reads this you get an A.
    If you understand any of it will you explain it to me?



    Don't bother to flame me. I'm fireproof.

    I hear the call of a wild Dos Equis, I will obtain a frosty mug and hunt it down.

    polishshooter
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    (4/3/02 12:58:00 am)
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    And to tell you the truth, all the violence WE saw on cartoons or on the stooges or Sgt Rock comic books or whatever when we were kids just MAY have allowed us to grow up with a "normal" perception of violence and reality....

    It's the kids weaned on the Smurfs and the Care Bears and Barney that seem to be shooting up the schools....


    But what this has to do with cartoon porn is beyond me...I certainly didn't have that as a kid or an adult, and I have no attraction to it now either.....

    To answer your question Bondai, yes, cartoons depicting child pornography should be banned and/or prosecuted...and probably have been or will be in Cincinatti..
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    barbon
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    (4/3/02 1:53:39 am)
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    Polishshooter,

    A very good point. Somehow we kids knew that Roadrunner
    and the other really violent cartoons were just cartoons.
    My brother and I used to talk about the stuff that Wile E.
    Coyote could come up with in the desert. It was part of the
    fun. We listened to our radio programs, the Lone Ranger,
    the Green Hornet, etc. On Friday and Saturday nights we
    listened to Duffy's Tavern, The Fat Man, and Boston Blackie,
    all cops and robbers and pretty violent. But we understood that they were just stories. We knew that those things happened in real life, but we knew the difference.

    The Dos Equis was very peaceful and non-violent, went into
    the mug with not protest.

    Zigzag2
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    (4/3/02 7:13:56 am)
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    Bondai, I have to give it to you... you've (again) brought a subject matter to the floor that needs to be scrutinized.
    Pornography, Violence, Children, Drawings, The LAW.

    Bondai, should there be any tolerance?

    I for one, would be happy to crucify an individual that would take advantage or harm my children, or any child for that matter. The fact is, it happens in different shapes and forms.
    I know 2 grown women that were personally affected by the actions of 2 different Catholic Priests,and a situation with my youngest daughter where by she was touched buy a neighbor boy.

    I think it's clear that child exploitation is wrong and against the law. But zero tolerance does not mean zero common sense. Is it a legitimate reason to expel a young boy from school for drawing a "naughty" picture?

    Lord help us

    **NEWS FLASH**

    About 12 years ago We (immediate family) suspected we had a pervert in the neighborhood, 4 doors for my parents.
    He's in the paper this morning with 9 counts of of child molestation, admitting to an act as far back as 1990.
    I think I'll be present at his court appearance.!

    Edited by: Zigzag2 at: 4/3/02 9:36:56 am

    ibtrukn
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    Before everyone goes off on tangents an such...
    THERE IS A VERY SIMPLE ANSWER.....
    If YOU think it's porn, it is
    Case closed!

    bondai
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (4/3/02 10:48:45 am)
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    Case closed ? I don't think so. Just because someone thinks the world if flat don't make it so.

    What I am saying is that if someone enjoys looking at drawings or other representations of children engaged in sexual acts or somehow thinks they are funny or entertaining. That person has a problem and it is a very small step before that person starts looking at the real thing.



    Zigzag2
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    (4/3/02 10:59:29 am)
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    It's the 1's that don't think that WHATEVER it is pertaining to exploiting children... are the 1's in question here...Right?

    whiteclouder
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    (4/3/02 11:32:06 am)
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    The words ‘child’ and ‘sex’ in the same sentence are pornographic. Children have no place in the discussion of the subject, unless it is as parent or guardian/mentor to child for the purpose of instruction. Describing in words, photographing, painting or drawing them in sexually suggestive or explicit poses or scenes is wrong.

    I, too, grew up with Fibber McGee and Molly, Johnny Dollar, and The Shadow. I saw Lash LaRue and Hop-Along Cassidy shoot countless bad guys and Indians. Am I mal-adjusted? Don’t think so; grumpy and intolerant of fools and hotheads, but surprisingly normal other than that. Were there pedophiles in my day? Yup, and the adults knew who they were, and kept the children away from them.

    Is a pedophile sick? Definitely. Should they be tortured and mutilated? Probably not. Would I want to if they approached my grandchildren? Probably so. Are there more now, than ever? No.

    The definition of pornography varies between societies and the ages. Gypsy girls of 8 are taught and encouraged to titillate and tease. Approach a young gypsy with sex on your mind and see what happens. The Victorians, and that includes we Americans at that time, were downright nasty. The west and particularly we Americans are obsessed with sex, both the practice of it, in every form, and the condemnation of the same. We are a bunch of confused hypocrites. If it’s physically possible and both are consenting, whatever a pair of adults does is their business. Ya ain’t gonna wear it out; I’ve been working on the same one for over forty years and ain’t hurt it one bit.

    Clouder..


    280freak
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    (4/3/02 12:27:05 pm)
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    Bondai -

    Don't you think that it is time to quit pussyfooting around and put yer cards on the table? It seems that most of the members reading and responding to this thread aren't aware of the circumstances that lead to your bringing this up. Therefore, things go off on tangents, and your hints aren't enough to get it back on track.

    We all post things (words, pictures, links, etc) of our OWN FREE WILL for others to respond to on these open forums. What was done, was done freely and openly for all to see by a member here. He wouldn't have done it if he didn't want a response or responses to it, so just where is the downside to naming names? Call a spade a spade and let's get it over with before people get even more confused about what you are trying to say. It's time, methinks.

    bondai
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    (4/3/02 12:53:26 pm)
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    I think you are the one who is confused. I have been following this story for awhile and I wanted some input from our members as to their views on this subject. Besides I am preparing a paper on the subject for a class I am enrolled in.

    I have no idea what you are talking about. Reading the responses I received it appears as though no one else is confused.They all seem pretty focused to me. If you have a comment on the question I posed, post it. If not then leave it alone. I have bigger fish to fry...



    280freak
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    (4/3/02 1:48:21 pm)
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    Well, shut my mouth, wide open! I woulda bet any amount of money. If you say it is just coincidence, well, I sure ain't gonna call you a liar, I'll take you at your word.

    It's just that the timing of this thread, along with your Simpson example, certainly made it look as though the two things were related (and you MUST know what I am referring to, as per your post in the Saloon).

    Coincidences DO happen though, and if I was wrong, I apologize.

    Would you prefer that I delete my last post? Say the word and it is gone. Never intended to p*ss ya off.

    Different name
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    Let's try and view the subject in this manner:

    Actually, Pictures, films, or writing(s) which deliberately arouse sexual excitement is considered "Pornography", and it DOES apply to all individuals exposed --- adults or children.
    Openly distributing or displaying this type of material is forbidden and considered to be against the law(s) of applicable jurisdictions.

    Charlie D
    Targeting children (especially), is
    a disgusting thought and
    everyone guilty of this
    activity should be severely
    dealt with!



    bondai
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    (4/3/02 2:02:43 pm)
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    280. No offense taken. I am aware of what went on but I came in on the tail end of it. It was a done deal when I arrived.

    As far as the timing of the post. I had been planning on making a post to get some info. The reference I used may have been prompted by the latest "poof" but it was not my intention to dog anyone. It was an available example so I used it. I think you know me well enough to know if I had something to say to someone I would say it.



    Zigzag2
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    and my reply is... the 61 yr. old PERVERT that lives in the neighborhood admitted his wrong doings and added he couldn't help himself.
    Do I feel sorry for the Guy...NO!
    I suspect he attempted his dirty deeds on my kids. The fact is the suspicions have been alive for over 10 years and it took a letter being intercepted by a "DAD" to start the investigation.
    My main concern with this subject matter is, there is a fine line between right and wrong, and I pray to God that we don't lose sight of our own common sense.
    Can there be a blanket ruling on this matter? I'd say no.
    The problem today exist because our lazy society is wanting a feel good fix-all, and it's simply not possible. Each and every case needs to be examined on it's own merits.


    280freak
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    Bondai -

    Well, alrighty then, the matter is dropped as far as I'm concerned. No harm, no foul. Once again, my apologies fer clouding the issue.


    Zigzag -

    Hell of a deal. Can't imagine the emotions you must be feeling.

    warpig883
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    Clouder, explain yerself,
    I agree with your opinion of child porn and pedophiles.



    However your last paragraph confuses me. Are you against sex altogether? Or for it only when it is between consenting adults?


    LIKTOSHOOT
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    (4/3/02 8:32:28 pm)
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    .....if only shoe`s
    T.F.F.

    warpig883
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    smelled like roses

    Different name
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    Ya cud ware em inyer hare!

    Charlie D
    That is if the locals like yer akcint...

    ibtrukn
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    Bondai, what I was saying is that "beauty" or the lack of it is an should be in the eyes of the beholder.
    And I am here to tell you, living a proverbial stone's throw from where all this child sex abuse by priests is was taking place, I ME IBTRUKN, would be the FIRST one to pull the trigger throw the switch etc etc if I could.
    We have never met, some day I would hope we might, cause we are BOTH on the same page on this issue and many others.
    However, what someone chooses to do in the privacy of their own home is not my business
    When it is pushed in my face, YES it becomes my business an I will handle it accordingly, whether it is turning off the tube, throwing away a magazine or calling the cops or flat ass punching out their lights.
    I hope this clears the air amigo, I am ON your side, not against you!

    An dat be de troot!! For sure!

    Zigzag2
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    Different name
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    ZIGZAG: GOOD LANDS....

    Been watching you carry on since about noon today....
    Beating your head against that Itty Bitty Mechanism (computer located on a stand), could cause very serious malfunctioning of both your poor head and the very patient
    IBM product.

    Charlie D
    Cud it be that yer
    readin "Hockey Game" RESULTS?


    Zigzag2
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    the real fredneck
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    for what it's worth I don't consider cartoons porn, they could be in poor taste (most things that are humorous offend someone) and yes 280 it was I who posted the Simpson cartoon over at the Pump House and I really didn't expect it to last long but it was a good example to go along with the earlier Gen Discussion thread on child porn, here's an article indicating the 1st Amendment is still alive and well I know that just breaks your heart bondai but that's America


    PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - A two-week federal trial to
    determine how far the government can go to protect
    children from pornography on library computers ended on
    Thursday with judges openly concerned about whether the
    latest online smut law from Congress infringes on
    free-speech rights.

    The Children's Internet Protection Act, or CIPA, which
    supporters view as the government's best shot yet at
    reining in online smut, requires public libraries to install
    filtering software on all computers or lose federal
    technology funding.

    Attorneys for a plaintiffs' coalition of libraries, library
    patrons and Web site operators, who want CIPA
    overturned, said in closing arguments that libraries cannot
    implement the law without denying patrons their First
    Amendment right to free speech under the U.S.
    Constitution.

    "We're stuck right in the heart of the First Amendment
    when we're talking about libraries," observed 3rd U.S.
    Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) Chief Judge
    Edward Becker.

    Becker heads a three-judge panel that will rule by early
    May on a plaintiffs' request for a permanent injunction
    against CIPA. Whichever way the ruling goes, the case will
    be appealed directly to the U.S. Supreme Court (news -
    web sites).

    A key plank in the case against CIPA is the limitations of
    filtering software products such as Cyber Patrol, Smart
    Filter, Web Sense and N2H2, which are designed to block
    access to Web sites deemed harmful to children under 17,
    including more than 100,000 sites with sexually explicit
    content.

    But even the government's attorneys concede that no
    product on the $250 million filtering software market can
    screen out objectionable Web sites without also blocking
    constitutionally protected sites including those of Sports
    Illustrated, Planned Parenthood (news - web sites) and
    Salon.com.

    The law's "terms, if you will, are a sham. Everybody knows
    you can't comply with its terms," American Civil Liberties
    Union (news - web sites) attorney Chris Hansen told the
    court.

    U.S. District Judge Harvey Bartle appeared to agree.
    "Every witness has testified that the statute can't be
    applied according to its own terms," he said.

    Judges also seemed concerned that the decision about
    which of the 11 million World Wide Web sites deserve to
    be blocked is made by anonymous corporate officials who
    consider their choices to be vital trade secrets.

    'NAMELESS, FACELESS'

    "The nameless and faceless," intoned U.S. District Judge
    John Fullam. "What right does the government have to
    require this kind of filtering system?"

    CIPA, the third attempt by Congress to control online
    pornography, was theoretically designed to weather free
    speech challenges by seeking only to cut off federal
    library funds rather than impose direct censorship
    restrictions.

    At stake for the nation's 40,000 public libraries are hundreds of millions of dollars
    in subsidies, such as grants provided under the Library Service and Technology Act,
    which are used to automate services and pay for Internet access.

    But the case also goes to the heart of the role libraries play as an open source of
    information in their communities.

    The judges expressed empathy for communities that want to protect children from
    an aggressive commercial pornography industry intent on luring young customers.
    However, they also recognized the constitutional dangers of leaving censorship
    decisions to the local majority opinion.

    Among the legal issues before the panel is whether judges can overturn CIPA
    without also branding unconstitutional the filtering systems already in place at
    libraries in Greenville, South Carolina, and Tacoma, Washington, which both provided
    evidence and testimony for the government's defense.

    "There is no constitutional right to immediate, anonymous access to speech, for
    free, in a public library," Justice Department (news - web sites) attorney Rupa
    Bhattacharyya said in a spirited defense of CIPA that equated filtering software
    usage to the choices libraries make selecting books for their collections.

    "Even if you assume that libraries have a right to provide unfettered access to the
    Internet, they don't have a right to do so with a federal subsidy," she added. "The
    crux of this matter is whether or not Congress has the power to decide how to use
    its money."

    The first attempt by Congress to control online smut, the 1996 Communications
    Decency Act, was thrown out by the Supreme Court as an infringement of free
    speech. The second, the 1998 Child Online Protection Act, remains sidelined by an
    injunction with the U.S. high court due to issue a final opinion by mid-year. Both
    would impose criminal penalties on violators.

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2816
    (4/4/02 7:00:27 pm)
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    well there you have it...

    nuff said again


    bondai
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1561
    (4/4/02 10:34:19 pm)
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    Fred,

    I just don't know what to say to you. You do whatever you think is best. If you want to waste your time looking at porno and drawings of cartoon characters engaged in sexual acts, go ahead. Rant all you want about your first amendment rights. There is no merit in anything you say.

    I would suggest that you keep this one thing in mind. The moderators of this board are not going to tolerate the posting of pornography..PERIOD ! It doesn't matter what you think, it only matters what the moderators think. We are not the least bit interested in what your interpretation is. You don't have a say in it. If you feel that you need a more detailed explanation contact me by email and I will explain it to you.



    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2395
    (4/4/02 11:17:07 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Question and opinions please..
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    Allow me to step in here and moderate a bit.

    To those reading, whether a participant or not, the above post may seem somewhat intolerant and heavy-handed. However, let me assure all that it DOES matter what ALL or ANY members think - we constantly strive to keep these forums open and entertaining for everyone.

    However, we simply must insist that the content of the posts remain suitable for consumption by the youngest common denominator. This maintains the reputations both of the board and its members. Allowing otherwise would allow the forum to digress to undesirable depths. At times, this line may seem arbitrary but there is a procedure we follow to ensure that post deletion is not done capriciously. I can personally avow that this procedure was followed in this particular case.

    So, continue the debate - its interesting reading.
    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com
    Kimber and Wilson Combat Master Dealer

    ibtrukn
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 797
    (4/5/02 10:29:53 am)
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    Rite on Doc! It does matter what any and all members think!

    ibtrukn

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 4061
    (4/5/02 11:05:39 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Question and opinions please..
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    Right you are Doc!
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4429
    (4/5/02 11:58:47 am)
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    I`m thinking body piercing, any ideas where to start????
    T.F.F.

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1699
    (4/5/02 12:21:58 pm)
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    Try the tip of your tongue, that always freaks me out when I see someone with shiny ring imbedded in their mouth. Grosses me out every time on body piercing


    Different name
    V.I.P. Forum Host
    Posts: 1622
    (4/5/02 5:53:52 pm)
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    I emitted a series of surprisingly loud and barlike coughs during the poignant posting passages herein above stated
    between participants.
    YOU?

    Charlie D
    Posting tantrums should be
    kept to a minimum so we
    don't upset the children....

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 4065
    (4/5/02 6:20:17 pm)
    | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: Question and opinions please..
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    I think what bondai was trying to say is that the
    TFF staff makes a decision whether to edit or delete
    a post based on the rules of the site, I'm sure he
    didn't mean that it doesn't matter what our members
    in general think and that only what staff think counts
    around here, because we all know by the header of
    this place alone that one of the most important things
    we pride ourselves on around here is the 1st amendment,
    of course we do have a few limitations which are posted
    at the top of every opening page but we feel that these
    are within reason and needed to maintain a site such as
    this one in order to stay within the bounds of civility and
    decency.
    TFF VMBB Email Tac

    whiteclouder
    Member
    Posts: 36
    (4/5/02 9:15:04 pm)
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    The first sentence of the second paragraph of bondai's post stated his position. Fine, I agree completely. The rest was a power trip. And that's fine, some people need that, but sanctimony gives me a pain in my butt.

    Clouder..

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3004
    (4/5/02 9:20:41 pm)
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    You got somethin in yer butt?


    You better go see the doc we got in the Pumphouse. use the secret handshake to get in the back room.

    We have a special treatment for that.

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1705
    (4/5/02 9:35:40 pm)
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    Piggy, are speaking of the demooner treatment of the pawnshop 3 orbs?

    GG

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3006
    (4/5/02 9:45:17 pm)
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    That and the rings of Uranus

    whiteclouder
    Member
    Posts: 39
    (4/5/02 9:58:35 pm)
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    Lets see---was it third--no, I think fourth--- yeah it was fouth grade, we used to giggle about stuff like that, usually in the cloakroom with someone on guard. That'd be, good grief, fifty years ago. And still fresh as a daisy. Fancy that.

    Clouder..

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3007
    (4/5/02 10:19:25 pm)
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    Well I am sure it don't smell like no daiseys I have ever smelled.

    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4435
    (4/5/02 10:22:07 pm)
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    Spectacular satire and razored edged wit. How soon it`s forgotten, how soon we`re forgotten. You keep playing the cards, I`ll always draw one. Some are sharp, some blunt. Ponder.......... LTS
    T.F.F.

    shooter22
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 976
    (4/5/02 10:43:40 pm)
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    LTS Your upper and lower lip with a single stud!


    Gotch ya! bite back!


    LTS, you no fun! at least you could do is a reference to Butt hickeys. Your slippin'


    Edited by: shooter22 at: 4/7/02 6:38:11 pm

    the real fredneck
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 924
    (4/6/02 3:13:45 am)
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    hey whiteclouder, I had a supervisor one time that would agonize over the "proper" usage of a word in a report for over half a day, come to think of it that guy didn't do much the other half day either

    whiteclouder
    Member
    Posts: 40
    (4/6/02 12:29:15 pm)
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    fred:

    But he was your supervisor. Uh huh.

    Clouder..



    Different name
    V.I.P. Forum Host
    Posts: 1628
    (4/6/02 6:20:59 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    Fred ---wazn't yer Grandad on tha BOARD OF DIRECTORS?

    THUD! (Duck)...

    Charlie D
    Lets now sing: "OH, I get by with a little help from my friends!


    reedbuster
    V.I.P. Forum Host
    Posts: 410
    (4/6/02 6:35:43 pm)
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    I used to be a whiteclouder...........now I pretty much just use charmin.


    Browning-The Best There Is.

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3020
    (4/6/02 8:10:09 pm)
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    Funniest thing I heard all day Redbuster



    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1711
    (4/6/02 8:36:53 pm)
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    Hey! Don't squeeze the Charmin. Just flush it.

    Piggy, Redbuster? Better add another e to that name.

    GG

    whiteclouder
    Member
    Posts: 42
    (4/6/02 8:45:33 pm)
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    redbuster:

    More scatology? Must be a trend. Did you guys go to school together or is this something you got into as older guys? Nasty, nasty.

    Clouder..

    reedbuster
    V.I.P. Forum Host
    Posts: 411
    (4/6/02 11:13:04 pm)
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    nope, I know what crap is when I see it...
    Browning-The Best There Is.

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2852
    (4/7/02 8:43:55 am)
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    Clouder, the enlightenment coupled with your introspection leaves question to your sence of humor.

    just an observation, without merit?

    Edited by: Zigzag2 at: 4/7/02 9:44:51 am

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3291
    (4/7/02 11:52:10 am)
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    Boy, I'm just happy to see everybody on the mat still has the blunt tip on their rapier...the THRUSTS are coming close to home! And the parries are MASTERFUL!

    But GOOD SHOW, Gentlemen...(and Ladies...)


    (Remember it's all in the 6" circle...and your wrist...)


    WHACK! SWISH! TING! TING! shuffle-shuffle DOINK!


    Ow....
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4450
    (4/7/02 12:10:13 pm)
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    You`ll put chur eye out, with that.......
    T.F.F.

    whiteclouder
    Member
    Posts: 43
    (4/7/02 12:56:30 pm)
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    I am overwhelmed by the glibness, the cutting use of the metaphor and the incisive application of the double-entendre. Faced with such an onslaught of sophistication I must retire, defeated, humbled, upbraided and utterly bored.

    Clouder..



    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2859
    (4/7/02 1:08:49 pm)
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    I now exactly what you mean...

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3023
    (4/7/02 1:12:26 pm)
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    heh heh Redbuster, Bedbuster, Headbuster, it's all good.


    I am not in the mood to drudge up any fancy words or innovative uses for plain ones. I do now that I am childish and immature and have fun doing it

    If it smells like **** and it looks like **** and it tastes like **** then it is probably

    A GLOCK

    Or a RUGER

    I have on my tin foil



    let the games begin



    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1716
    (4/7/02 3:20:45 pm)
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    Ah, its just a brand X peanut butter...try some you'll like it, Mikey.

    GG

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2863
    (4/7/02 7:18:16 pm)
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    I'm with Polishshooter, and I like entertaining myself


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3037
    (4/7/02 7:41:27 pm)
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    That will make you go blind ZigZag

    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2867
    (4/7/02 8:42:57 pm)
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    I do need to trade these spectacles in for some with bi-focals

    hammer4nc
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 290
    (4/7/02 8:44:29 pm)
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    Syllepsis, or zeugma? I can't tell one from the other...

    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 471
    (4/7/02 9:54:13 pm)
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    (Giggle, giggle, - Snort, snort!!)

    Hey you guys - pass that cigarette butt around here in the cloakroom 'fore the teacher comes!
     
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