One of my friends has asked me to reload 1000 rds of .40's for him. He said that he will buy all the materials I would need and that he would pay me for my time. My question to all of you is, would you do it and if so, how much would you charge? If you say that you would not do it, please explain why.
Reloading for friends?
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280 Posts
I will not load for anyone, even family. If anything happened to their gun or if the recipe did not work well for them it would always be my fault. And it is illegal, what would happen if they shot someone, even justifiably, with your ammo. Care to explain that in court?
I do however make my bench and knowledge available to them, should they wish to load for themselves.
I do however make my bench and knowledge available to them, should they wish to load for themselves.
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2,608 Posts
A great idea. Most people new to reloading are baffled by what they perceive as to the instructions. I'm the kind of person, that if you show me, I'll retain all of it but when I start reading the instructions my ADD brain just jumps pages all over the place.
That's why I use YouTube whenever I want to learn how to do or fix something.
Best reason not to is that is would be a violation of BATFE laws. You are being an unlicensed ammo manufacturer and they kinda frown upon that without the proper FFL.
Next best reason is that friendship goes away and the lawyers come upon the scene if there is an unlikely kaboom from the ammo YOU made. You are going to get a crap-load of liability insurance beforehand? Though whether or not even that protects you while engaging in an illegal activity like ammo making for profit is unclear to me.
Tell your buddy to bring over the components and you will let him use your machinery and let him assume all risk.
Next best reason is that friendship goes away and the lawyers come upon the scene if there is an unlikely kaboom from the ammo YOU made. You are going to get a crap-load of liability insurance beforehand? Though whether or not even that protects you while engaging in an illegal activity like ammo making for profit is unclear to me.
Tell your buddy to bring over the components and you will let him use your machinery and let him assume all risk.
Don't reload for others. The liability is too great. I do help one good friend but this is how I do it:
He buys the supplies. He comes to my house and I show him how to and work with him to reload his cases. I take no money for the effort and claim to only have helped him reload. That may not be a perfect from a liability perspective but he is a long time friend that needs help to be able to even shoot at all. I'll take the risk but only for him.
LDBennett
He buys the supplies. He comes to my house and I show him how to and work with him to reload his cases. I take no money for the effort and claim to only have helped him reload. That may not be a perfect from a liability perspective but he is a long time friend that needs help to be able to even shoot at all. I'll take the risk but only for him.
LDBennett
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3,189 Posts
Howlnmad and RandyP are spot on IMO,
DON'T DO IT!
just more headache than it's worth.
what if those rounds sit on the shelf for 5 years and then he trades them to someone you don't even know that winds up blowing himself up? that guy will for certain want a piece of your finances!
I don't want to wonder every day if I'm going to be the target of a lawsuit. not to mention, it's a good way to lose a friend. and illegal anyway.
if you're dead set on it, have your buddy operate the press under your guidance. that can still get you in trouble but not as bad.
DON'T DO IT!
just more headache than it's worth.
what if those rounds sit on the shelf for 5 years and then he trades them to someone you don't even know that winds up blowing himself up? that guy will for certain want a piece of your finances!
I don't want to wonder every day if I'm going to be the target of a lawsuit. not to mention, it's a good way to lose a friend. and illegal anyway.
if you're dead set on it, have your buddy operate the press under your guidance. that can still get you in trouble but not as bad.
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17,300 Posts
I say no, but not for liability, or legality reasons. Simple finances.
Let's suppose you want to load up 100 rounds of 38 special lead bullets. STORE-BOUGHT lead bullets, because casting them yourself would put you farther behind the eight-ball.
A hundred rounds of lead 38 bullets gonna cost you at least ten bucks. So that's 10 then. Primers? Another 4. That's 14. Powder? Powder's cheap. Let's say 3.5 of Bullseye (because that gives you an even 2000 rounds per pound) at 20 bucks a pound makes a penny a load makes another dollar. Now we're at 15 dollars for components.
How much you figger to charge? I can find the cheap stuff running 15 to 20 bucks for 50. That makes 30 to 40 per hundred. Now, if it was me, and I could buy factory for 40 a hundred, and someone wanted to charge me 35 a hundred for reloads, I'd buy factory. So I don't think you could get away with more than 30 bucks a hundred.
That's 30 gross, minus 15 parts, leaves 15 dollars for your labor. From startup to clean up, it is going to be at least two hours on a single stage press.
I wouldn't do that for somebody else for 7.50 an hour. Just ain't worth my time.
Now, if someone wanted 375 H&H, and they wanted several hundred, I could make some money. With high-dollar bullets for less than a dollar each, I could probably make them for less than a buck and a half each, and since store-bought runs around 7 or 8 dollars, each, I could charge 5 dollars a shell and make money, and they buyer would save money. That's because it's not a common round.
You might could make money making 454 Casulls, or 500 Smiths. But you're not going to make anything do 40s.
Your friend would be happy. He gets his ammo cheap. But once you realize you're reloading for other people and charging 2 bucks an hour for your time, you won't be happy.
Let's suppose you want to load up 100 rounds of 38 special lead bullets. STORE-BOUGHT lead bullets, because casting them yourself would put you farther behind the eight-ball.
A hundred rounds of lead 38 bullets gonna cost you at least ten bucks. So that's 10 then. Primers? Another 4. That's 14. Powder? Powder's cheap. Let's say 3.5 of Bullseye (because that gives you an even 2000 rounds per pound) at 20 bucks a pound makes a penny a load makes another dollar. Now we're at 15 dollars for components.
How much you figger to charge? I can find the cheap stuff running 15 to 20 bucks for 50. That makes 30 to 40 per hundred. Now, if it was me, and I could buy factory for 40 a hundred, and someone wanted to charge me 35 a hundred for reloads, I'd buy factory. So I don't think you could get away with more than 30 bucks a hundred.
That's 30 gross, minus 15 parts, leaves 15 dollars for your labor. From startup to clean up, it is going to be at least two hours on a single stage press.
I wouldn't do that for somebody else for 7.50 an hour. Just ain't worth my time.
Now, if someone wanted 375 H&H, and they wanted several hundred, I could make some money. With high-dollar bullets for less than a dollar each, I could probably make them for less than a buck and a half each, and since store-bought runs around 7 or 8 dollars, each, I could charge 5 dollars a shell and make money, and they buyer would save money. That's because it's not a common round.
You might could make money making 454 Casulls, or 500 Smiths. But you're not going to make anything do 40s.
Your friend would be happy. He gets his ammo cheap. But once you realize you're reloading for other people and charging 2 bucks an hour for your time, you won't be happy.
Thanks for the insight guys. I had been leaning towards not doing it even before asking here. Now, im sure I won't be doing it. He can buy the press and all the materials himself and learn how to reload. I put my time in to learn and so should he. Thanks again fellas.
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I don't reload for anyone else, but I will reload WITH someone else. So long as they are part of the process, then I'm good with it.
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your rules there make that not a smart Idea , folks have been locked up for doing just that , and i remember a guy who did 50 reloads and gave 10 to a friend and they had a barrel blockage and explosion next shot and lost a finger .. the guy who gave him the ammo got sued and lost everything ( some friend eh )
here i can , the folks i make ammo for sign a form stating they know i did my best but accept no responcibility and when they sign i'm covered ..
but you cant do so in the USA not unless you have all the licenses and insurances and permits , and i'm told you have to be making 1/2 a million rounds a year minimum to make that cost and setup viable
( from a member here that looked into it a gave up on the idea JohnLivesforChrist )
here i can , the folks i make ammo for sign a form stating they know i did my best but accept no responcibility and when they sign i'm covered ..
but you cant do so in the USA not unless you have all the licenses and insurances and permits , and i'm told you have to be making 1/2 a million rounds a year minimum to make that cost and setup viable
( from a member here that looked into it a gave up on the idea JohnLivesforChrist )
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