The Firearms Forum banner

61 - 80 of 142 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,910 Posts
You don't take it apart. You clean from the muzzle. The bore guide is like a funnel. You stick it in the muzzle. Then your cleaning rod rubs against the side of the bore guide, instead of against the side of the muzzle, and does not damage your muzzle.

Another option - gun specific - is something that looks like an opened tin can, made out of very thick plastic. The inside of the "can" is just large enough to go over the barrel. There would normally be a slot cut in the side of the "can", to go around the front sight. And the bottom of the "can" would have a "slightly-larger than rod" size hole in the center of it. This would have the effect of centering the rod in the bore, and there is no rubbing against the muzzle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #62
Alpo- Yeah, I understand the muzzle guard kind of bore guide. A lot simpler than the one that goes in the other end.

The other one you mentioned is interesting, too. Thanks for the illustration. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,207 Posts
SHTF?? Sheesh..

Im a ninja.. I just need my sword. :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #64
SHTF?? Sheesh..

Im a ninja.. I just need my sword. :cool:

I've probably got 20 swords - just don't think they'll help much! :D

Anway, tried the rifle yesterday. Even in the wind, it wasn't bad. Had a few feeding issues, but I think it was related to the ammo. One kind didn't have a smooth transition between the point and the jacket. But also, a few weren't wanting to go straight into the ramp, either. It was like there was too much room down by the loading gate and a few of 'em were crooked and hanging up before they could go up the ramp. Just need to check out some different ammo, probably. Any opinions on PMC, Fiocchi, Magtech, Sellier and Bellot, Cor-Bon, or Remington? I'm looking at maybe ordering some from Sportsman's Guide since they have free shipping today. Not sure what to get. :confused: Also, is there any reason I wouldn't want to choose one with a soft jacket or point?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,910 Posts
So you got a Rossi? Just making sure.

Mine loved UMC yellowbox 158 SWC 357s. The only thing it would not feed reliably was 3D brand 38 special SWC. They have a very long-nosed bullet, and mine just did not like that.

Ammo opinions? PMC, MagTech and S&B are all great ammo. I've never used any Fiocchi or Cor-bon. Remington Golden Saber 45s are wonderful stuff. Remington 22s suck, in all versions. And that's pretty much all the green-box Remington I've used.

Sounds like you are doing the right thing, though. Try a bunch of different stuff and see what YOUR gun likes. 'Cause YOUR gun is different than MY gun, and won't necessarily like the same stuff.

Jacketed ammo (JSP, JHP) is fine. FMJ in a tubular magazine is an explosion waiting to happen. And I would stay away from RN bullets, period, even in cast lead. SWC (except for that one 3D example) have always fed well in my guns, and RNF bullets are the bee's knees for a "pistol-caliber" tube-mag lever gun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #66
Yep, the Rossi is the one I ended up having to get. So not round nose and full metal jacket. Bummer, those seemed to be the ones that fed well. What a guessing game this all is! Thanks for the info, though.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
25 Posts
I don't think we are going to have another ammo shortage. Retailers love panic buying. In 2008 and 2009 we had 2 wars going on and George Bush gave the military plenty of funding on his way out. We have no reasons for an ammo shortage now. The only thing driving up ammo prices are people panic buying. Don't you all think retailers read our words? Don't you think unscrupulous vendors will support all these gloom and doom news letters circulating around the internet?

9mm combos are cheap and easy to get for starters. You can pick up a Hi Point carbine real cheap and your choice of handgun. Once you learn a little more about what suits you. That is when you spend big bucks and get a magnum handgun and an expensive rifle.

You might discover the 9mm is all you need or that a magnum handgun cartridge is not what you need in a rifle.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
25 Posts
You don't take it apart. You clean from the muzzle. The bore guide is like a funnel. You stick it in the muzzle. Then your cleaning rod rubs against the side of the bore guide, instead of against the side of the muzzle, and does not damage your muzzle.

Another option - gun specific - is something that looks like an opened tin can, made out of very thick plastic. The inside of the "can" is just large enough to go over the barrel. There would normally be a slot cut in the side of the "can", to go around the front sight. And the bottom of the "can" would have a "slightly-larger than rod" size hole in the center of it. This would have the effect of centering the rod in the bore, and there is no rubbing against the muzzle.
How does an aluminum cleaning rod damage a steel rifle barrel. I can see a nylon bore snake wearing out a steel barrel. While it is best to clean a barrel from the chamber wearing out the barrel isn't the problem. Starting from the chamber does ensure that your gun is not loaded.

I have several semi-auto rifles that I have been cleaning from the muzzle with aluminum cleaning rods for over 35 years. None of them have suffered any damage to the rifling or muzzle crown.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #69
I don't think we are going to have another ammo shortage. Retailers love panic buying. In 2008 and 2009 we had 2 wars going on and George Bush gave the military plenty of funding on his way out. We have no reasons for an ammo shortage now. The only thing driving up ammo prices are people panic buying. Don't you all think retailers read our words? Don't you think unscrupulous vendors will support all these gloom and doom news letters circulating around the internet?

9mm combos are cheap and easy to get for starters. You can pick up a Hi Point carbine real cheap and your choice of handgun. Once you learn a little more about what suits you. That is when you spend big bucks and get a magnum handgun and an expensive rifle.

You might discover the 9mm is all you need or that a magnum handgun cartridge is not what you need in a rifle.
Okay, well here's my question: Has the panic buying ever happened because the rumor was that the government was going to stop the manufacture of ammo and that's the reason it wasn't to be available any longer? Because that's the one that's gotten me worried. I'm the type that normally ignores rumors, believe me. So I don't know what's different this time, honestly. But I do know I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I'm sure you're right about the 9 mm. combo possibly being better. But I've done what I've done and I doubt I'll go for anything else in the future. We'll see. You never know....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #70
How does an aluminum cleaning rod damage a steel rifle barrel. I can see a nylon bore snake wearing out a steel barrel. While it is best to clean a barrel from the chamber wearing out the barrel isn't the problem. Starting from the chamber does ensure that your gun is not loaded.

I have several semi-auto rifles that I have been cleaning from the muzzle with aluminum cleaning rods for over 35 years. None of them have suffered any damage to the rifling or muzzle crown.
Do a search, and you'll find plenty of discussion as to why. It's wear over time caused by improper usage of the rod, apparently. There are doubters about it, but I guess there's plenty of evidence, too. I'm guessing they don't make bore guides as another useless accessory, but because they're needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #71
Wait a minute, what's the difference between full metal case, full metal jacket, and fully encapsulated?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,717 Posts
Yep, the Rossi is the one I ended up having to get. So not round nose and full metal jacket. Bummer, those seemed to be the ones that fed well. What a guessing game this all is! Thanks for the info, though.
I've been hearing a lot of good things about Hornady Leverevoltion. This stuff is specifically designed for lever guns, and some people say it's the only ammo they've found that feeds and ejects reliably in their Rossi's. One thing of which you should be aware, the Hornady owner is a big Obama supporter. A lot of folks are boycotting them for this reason.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/7-AHDY92755

View attachment 70294
Ammo .357 Magnum Hornady LEVERevolution 140 Grain FTX Bullet 1440 fps 25 Rounds 92755
(no reviews)
Our Low Price:
$20.16

Ships from warehouse: What is this?
More Buying Choices
Warehouse for $18.57 Show Me
Warehouse for $18.39 Show Me
Warehouse for $18.45 Show Me
Share

Manufacturer: Hornady 92755
Item: 7-AHDY92755
UPC: 090255927559

LEVERevolution is the most exciting thing to ever happen to lever gun ammunition. Hornady, the leader in ballistic technology, brings you an innovation in ammunition performance featuring state of the industry, patented FTX (Flex Tip eXpanding) bullets that are SAFE in your tubular magazine. Its higher ballistic coefficient delivers dramatically flatter trajectories for fantastic downrange energy increases and amazing bullet expansion at all ranges. It truly is an evolution in lever gun ammunition!

Up to 250 feet per second faster muzzle velocity than conventional lever gun loads.
Exceptional accuracy and overwhelming downrange terminal performance.
LEVERevolution bullet featuring Flex Tip Technology.
Up to 40% more energy than traditional flat point loads.

Muzzle velocity: 1440 fps
Velocity at 50 yards: 1274 fps
Velocity at 100 yards: 1143 fps
Muzzle energy: 644 ft/lbs
Energy at 50 yards: 504 ft/lbs
Energy at 100 yards: 406 ft/lbs
Uses: Predators, Deer, Medium Game

25 Rounds per box. To buy a full case, order 25 boxes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,910 Posts
Normal jacketed bullets are made by taking a copper piece that looks like a handle-less cup, and putting lead in it. Then, under pressure, they shape the bullet.

If you want a soft-nosed bullet, you have the "mouth" of the cup up, so the lead is exposed at the top. You can just leave the lead exposed - soft point - or drill a hollow into the exposed lead - hollow point.

If you want a bullet that is not soft-nosed, you put the mouth of the cup down, so that the bottom of the cup becomes the nose of the bullet. You can shape it pointed, like a military rifle bullet, or shape it round, like a military pistol bullet. Either one is considered "Full Metal Jacket", since all the bullet you see, outside the cartridge case, is covered in the copper jacket.

Full Metal Jacket and Full Metal Case is the same thing.

Now, since you make a FMJ by turning the cup of lead upside down and making the bullet nose on the BOTTOM of the cup, the open mouth of the cup is the bullet base.

Fully encapsulated is, instead of filling a cup with lead and then shaping, they electroplate a lead slug with copper, and then shape it. The entire bullet is covered with copper - there is no lead exposed.

There are two reasons for that. One is that you use less copper, so it is cheaper. That is why Ranier came up with the process.

The second one is that, when you fire a gun, you obviously have burning powder pushing at the base of the bullet. With a FMJ, you have the base of the bullet being exposed lead. The burning powder vaporizes some of the lead, which gets into the air. Shooting indoors, with this vaporized lead in the air, means you are breathing the vaporized lead.

So say the people that think it's a great idea. They use lead in the making of primers, also, and they now have "Non-Toxic" primers that don't use lead, for the same reason. Firing them indoors means more lead in the air, and you breath the lead.

I don't believe the danger exists, but someone must, because the NT ammo was made to prevent it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,717 Posts
I don't think we are going to have another ammo shortage. Retailers love panic buying. In 2008 and 2009 we had 2 wars going on and George Bush gave the military plenty of funding on his way out. We have no reasons for an ammo shortage now. The only thing driving up ammo prices are people panic buying. Don't you all think retailers read our words? Don't you think unscrupulous vendors will support all these gloom and doom news letters circulating around the internet?
See, this is how a faulty world view effects gun owners. You think you don't have to worry about ammo availability now. If you realized the situation we are in you'd know that restrictions of all kinds are just around the corner and we through the NRA, GOA, SAF, and others have been lobbying hard to prevent it. It was not that long ago that a 400% tax was suggested on ammo. Your fine progressives in congress and the white house are trying their damnedest to restrict us any way they can. Better do some research.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #75 (Edited)
RunningOnMT - Yeah, that LEVERevolution stuff seems interesting. I've been reading about it, too. Was sort of considering trying it, but the Obama thing just decided me. After all, it's his reelection that's basically forcing me into spending all this money I don't want to, learning all this new stuff in a hurry and giving me headaches, and you know....basic worry about the what-ifs of the future. And this ammo is expensive, too, so I probably would've gone for it anyway. :rolleyes:

Alpo - Thanks for that post. I love it when the details are all spelled out that way, and with pictures! Very nice. :) But my next question is about soft points. Okay, so it's soft, but what shape is it? Or doesn't it matter?I was just researching the thing about points touching the primer of the bullet ahead of it and causing that explosion you were talking about, and now I'm worried about that. Seems like an unlikely problem, but I'm not willing to ignore it. Oh, and what about .38 special +P? Seems like a specialty round, and maybe therefore unnecessary, but it would add to my options.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,910 Posts
Soft point basically just means it has exposed lead.

These three are "pointed soft points".



This would be a flat-nosed jacketed soft point (JSP), and is what most JSP revolver ammo bullets will look like.



These are all soft points, and as you can see some look very different from the others.



The 3rd from the right is a Round-Nose Soft Point. The second from the left is a Flat Nosed soft point pistol bullet. And notice that the far left, although there is jacket all the way to the end, since it has exposed lead, it also meets the definition of a soft point.


That's why I prefer this bullet in my lever guns.



It's called a Round Nose Flat Point. The RNFP was designed with tube magazines in mind. It has the rounded shape, to feed through the action easily, but has a large flat point, so the bullet nose is resting on the head of the cartridge in front of it, and not on the primer.

Oh, and we can't forget this. It is a RN SP for an M1 Carbine. Notice, lots of jacket and very little actual soft point exposed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,609 Posts
supplier I get my 762x39 milsurp from ( face to face deal.. not tele / internet).. just told me the last pallate he bouught went up 1000$ over night.. and his bulk supplier stopepd selling to him by the pallate after that order.. by the case only now.. :(

I don't think we are going to have another ammo shortage. Retailers love panic buying. In 2008 and 2009 we had 2 wars going on and George Bush gave the military plenty of funding on his way out. We have no reasons for an ammo shortage now. The only thing driving up ammo prices are people panic buying. Don't you all think retailers read our words? Don't you think unscrupulous vendors will support all these gloom and doom news letters circulating around the internet?

9mm combos are cheap and easy to get for starters. You can pick up a Hi Point carbine real cheap and your choice of handgun. Once you learn a little more about what suits you. That is when you spend big bucks and get a magnum handgun and an expensive rifle.

You might discover the 9mm is all you need or that a magnum handgun cartridge is not what you need in a rifle.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
25 Posts
supplier I get my 762x39 milsurp from ( face to face deal.. not tele / internet).. just told me the last pallate he bouught went up 1000$ over night.. and his bulk supplier stopepd selling to him by the pallate after that order.. by the case only now.. :(
I just bought 120 rounds of brown bear 203 gr 7.62x54 ammo for less than .50 a round. Maybe the hole that all the milsurp ammo was in went dry. manufactured ammo sure isn't going up. I ordered a case of 357 ammo that did get back ordered until 12/10 for less than $19 a box Fiocchi. Most of the time I get ammo before the back order date. It's hard for me reload JSP ammo for that price. To start off with I am having a hard time finding JSP bullets. I can reload cast rounds similar to double tap ammo easier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,609 Posts
i have some reloadable 762x39 brass and a box of projectiles on the shelf, plus die sets, just beacuse.. in case I need some handload rounds.. IE.. not commercial production run..e tc.. however for 99% of my x39 shooting.. I just can't touch buying the stuff steel cased disposable by the spam can or battlepack.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,207 Posts
Normal jacketed bullets are made by taking a copper piece that looks like a handle-less cup, and putting lead in it. Then, under pressure, they shape the bullet.

If you want a soft-nosed bullet, you have the "mouth" of the cup up, so the lead is exposed at the top. You can just leave the lead exposed - soft point - or drill a hollow into the exposed lead - hollow point.

If you want a bullet that is not soft-nosed, you put the mouth of the cup down, so that the bottom of the cup becomes the nose of the bullet. You can shape it pointed, like a military rifle bullet, or shape it round, like a military pistol bullet. Either one is considered "Full Metal Jacket", since all the bullet you see, outside the cartridge case, is covered in the copper jacket.

Full Metal Jacket and Full Metal Case is the same thing.

Now, since you make a FMJ by turning the cup of lead upside down and making the bullet nose on the BOTTOM of the cup, the open mouth of the cup is the bullet base.

Fully encapsulated is, instead of filling a cup with lead and then shaping, they electroplate a lead slug with copper, and then shape it. The entire bullet is covered with copper - there is no lead exposed.

There are two reasons for that. One is that you use less copper, so it is cheaper. That is why Ranier came up with the process.

The second one is that, when you fire a gun, you obviously have burning powder pushing at the base of the bullet. With a FMJ, you have the base of the bullet being exposed lead. The burning powder vaporizes some of the lead, which gets into the air. Shooting indoors, with this vaporized lead in the air, means you are breathing the vaporized lead.

So say the people that think it's a great idea. They use lead in the making of primers, also, and they now have "Non-Toxic" primers that don't use lead, for the same reason. Firing them indoors means more lead in the air, and you breath the lead.

I don't believe the danger exists, but someone must, because the NT ammo was made to prevent it.
Alpo, your paint illustrations are epic!
 
61 - 80 of 142 Posts
Top