Ron Paul Issues Statement on ATF Gun Scandal

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by MattCollins, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. Hatch

    Hatch Former Guest

    Sep 24, 2010
    I agree with you, but I think there are other obstacles

    The Libertarian party is unjustly discriminated against in many states where the R&D have conspired to prevent any other candidates from being allowed on the ballot in National elections

    The Libertarian party has to run RP as a Republican because they know they have ZERO traction as Libertarians. Sure, getting the word out is one thing, but there's a difference in dealing in reality and self deception. I dont like it anymore than any of you do, but it's no different than Perot or Nader votes. If we were to massively reform our entire electorate and actually turn it into 1 man (person now): 1 vote then we could get rid of some of those hurdles, but even today we'd still be looking down the double barrel shotgun of a President who can legalize 20 million democrats with the stroke of a pen.

    The Libertarians also present themselves as Independent and have ideals that are both right and left facing, but their planks make to many of either side choke, so they either stay home or they vote their original party line.

    Drugs - should pot be legal? IMO, yes, stop wasting time money and resources on knuckleheads that hang out at the mall and want to smoke a joint.

    Should that extend to coke? ehhhh... maybe. yeah, people with addictive personalities will be ruled by this drug, but it is their choice to use it at their peril, are they any more likely to commit a traffic homicide because they are on coke than whiskey? I dont think any of the history of arrests support that (which is also why most jurisdictions no longer prosecute DWI and now choose DUI) it's a big legal distinction between Intoxicated and Impaired (Impaired being = "under the influence")

    Should that extend to man made drugs like Meth, PCP, LSD? Uhhhhh how about not only NO, but HELL NO. Those arent random things someone will stumble across on their trek across God's green earth and decide to sample, those are some of the nastiest things we've ever made, and those individual lives are destroyed faster than any pot smoking or beer drinking slacker could ever hope to achieve.

    Foreign entanglements... these ideals were framed when it took months if not weeks to move people from one country to another in order to make war or hostilities. Now we can bring Global Thermonuclear War to all corners of the globe in less than 28 minutes. Yeah... I think we need to rethink the hands off, they are on their own xenophobic Libertarian policy.

    Lest we forget, that without the French, who we immediately stabbed in the back, we wouldn't have this country of our own sovereign from British rule.

    Libertarians have a lot going for them (us) but they need to prove it to everyone else in big ways, at the very basic levels first. And that has more to do with knocking on doors and talking to neighbors than it does with donating to a national campaign that will walk away with at best perhaps 1-2 dozen electorate votes in a Presidential general.

    Just my opinion.
  2. rentalguy1

    rentalguy1 Former Guest

    Oct 10, 2009
    The mountains of NE TN.
    I'm sorry, but if you are taking this as Dr. Paul singling out heroin for legalization, then you need to work on your contextual skills. You, like many others, hear this one snippet, and take it as the Gospel. All of us have a DUTY to go back and read each candidates actual words, and look at their actions over a span of time to garner the context of that person's words.

    Ron Paul is not necessarily for the legalization of drugs, and neither is the Libertarian Party, for that matter. Both are for taking the matter out of federal hands and putting back in the hands of the states, where it belongs. He wants to end the "War on Drugs" which has always been a abysmal failure, and drains our coffers of hundreds of billions of dollars every year.

    I get it that you are against heroin. Your posts read as if you have had family or friends that have wrecked their life with this drug. I get that, because I have family and friends that have let pot and booze wreck their lives. None of the laws out there helped any of them. In fact, they may have pushed some towards drugs that may not have had any interest if they were as legal as cigarettes.

    The only reason that Dr. Paul is labeled as a quack is because that's what the talking heads in the media and the higher ups in both parties have fed you. And you ate it right up. They do the same thing with Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Neal Boortz, Herman Cain, and many others. The thing about Paul is he does not have the air time to get the truth out like the others I mentioned. He must be doing something right, though. The people in his district, and all over Texas, love the man.

    I beg you to please go read some of what the man has actually said, in context, and look up some of what he has done in his career. He likely isn't very far from the line of thought of anyone on this board when the facts are learned. He's really for all the same things that we are. He just has the stones to say so in a public forum, and then the media hacks up his words to make it sound like he's from Mars.

  3. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

    Nov 19, 2008
    Akron, Ohio
    The war on drugs has not succeeded just as prohibition didn't succeed; and the fact is that alcohol has caused the deaths of far more people than drugs, yes even heroin and cocaine. To be in favor of laws banning drugs without being in favor of laws banning alcoholic beverages is nothing less than hypocrisy.

    However that isn't the main issue. I believe it is the fundamental right of every individual to ingest whatever he chooses. It's called freedom. God has given every human being free will to make choices in their lives, even if they are bad ones. I'm in no way advocating the use of drugs, but what others choose to consume is none of my business, nor anyone Else's. Their illegal conduct as a result of drug use is.

    As rentalguy has pointed out, the "war on drugs" has cost us enormous sums of money, to pay for law enforcement, prosecution, and the incarceration of tens of thousands of relatively harmless individuals. That crimes of violence are committed to enable the acquisition, distribution, and use of these drugs has more to do with their prohibition than it does with the direct effects of the drugs themselves.

    The mob has long played a major role in promoting the drug industry, along with the cartels, and terrorist groups. These thugs know how to promote it and make it highly profitable. By their very existence they multiply the incidence of drug use over what would naturally occur if such substances were not outlawed.

    Think about it. How long would these vermin stay in business if they made no profit? Most drugs are easily and cheaply made but due to their illegality the cost to the user is a hundredfold. That makes many addicts desperate people. Desperate people take desperate measures to obtain the things they crave. The muggings and murders of innocent citizens is the result of this war on drugs.

    If we instead used our resources to pay for the manufacture of these drugs and made them available at low cost to addicts and habitual users we could put a lot of thugs out of business. This would also take the users out of the shadows and make them more accessible for education and treatment, and make them far less likely to commit violent crimes.

    That is the key. Laws prevent very few from using drugs. Those who want them will obtain and use them. The individual must make the choice to be rehabilitated. Forcing it on them accomplishes nothing. You see in the end it still comes down to choice, whether or not government acknowledges the right to choose.
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