The Firearms Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
61 - 69 of 69 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
433 Posts
Discussion Starter #61 (Edited)
Good deal Go-Get beer...I'll have a cold one too !!!:D
Not angry ...just don't understand how some people can be so inclined to turn their backs on reality instead of doing something pro-active :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
TF - Me neither! When I hear these view points, I sit back and scratch my head and wonder why they either don't, won't, or can't understand why most Americans cherish freedom and would like to see others enjoy what we have had for the last 200 years. Even the “useful idiots” that protest the war in this country, essentially supporting Saddam Hussein, truly don't understand the cost of freedom.

GGB - I see you are from a former communist held country. I can somewhat understand your confusion at why we fight for this ideal. However, ask yourself why Poland tried for so many years and at the cost of so many lives to obtain freedom from the USSR.

Lastly, I am reminded of a William Shakespeare quote that I think applies to some of the people and countries in the world that are opposed to the Coalition Forces being in Iraq.

Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once.

Boomer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
I'm confused that after all this discussion and witnessing the resistance of Iraqis to being 'freed' you still think you fight for an ideal.
Poland was fighting for its freedom since before the US existed revolts against the USSR were just the last fifth of this fight. We had to stand alone with little to no help from outside, which taught us that no help comes without a price and then only if the helping one has some interest in you being helped. Let me end with another quote, just as fitting IMO.

Why, of course the people don't want war... but, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship... voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
--Hermann Goering, Nazi Commander, April 18, 1946
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,133 Posts
Go Get Beer, I don't think anyone here is angry or upset. Everyone just feels passionately about this subject, depending on which side of the fence they are on. You have raised some valid points. But I still think that when you look at the greater picture, we are doing a necessary thing in Iraq.

Your last quote is a good one. That applies to every nation on earth. But since you mentioned Iraqi resistance to our efforts, I feel compelled to use your quote to explain their resistance. The Iraqi regime under Saddam Hussein has been masterful at spreading their propaganda inside Iraq as well as around the world. They have portrayed themselves as victims of American aggression. I hate to say this, but they have done a very good job at it. They are just plain wrong, but their message has taken hold nonetheless.

I really can't blame the Iraqis for fighting against us. I think that no matter how much I hated my own government, if another country invaded my homeland, I would fight to repel them. But when you see the Iraqi military killing their own civilians for trying to flee to coalition-held territory, the Iraqi true colors start to show. It is a dangerous game we play, and we face a difficult struggle in trying to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Make no mistake; we do not hold any ill will toward the Iraqis. We honestly want to help them and allow them to live long and happy lives.

Our whole intent in Iraq is to reduce a threat to ourselves and others, as well as help the Iraqi population attain freedom. I hope that you can see this, by our actions in Iraq. We are very careful to hit only military or regime targets. We are trying, to the best of our abilities, to reduce or eliminate civilian deaths. Show me any other nation on earth that has ever done this in the heat of war. If we were truly aggressors, we would lay waste to their whole land and kill indiscriminately. But we have put forth our best efforts to focus on their military and regime.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Since the crusades I don't recall an aggressor killing and destroying indiscriminately when he could hold what he conquered and have the population do his bidding. I'm waiting anxiously to see the outcome of the fight between the two propaganda machines: Iraqi and US. It will probably end in a bloody guerilla war, but there is hope for peace after this operation yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,133 Posts
The propaganda war is the hardest to win. I honestly don't know why we allow Iraqi TV to remain. If I were in charge, we would have wiped them off the airwaves on day 1 of the campaign, and started broadcasting our own message in its place.

The only explanation I can come up with is that we're trying to look like good guys by letting them keep their TV station on the air. But it's doing us more harm than good in our efforts to convince the Iraqi population that we're not there to hurt them.

Since the crusades I don't recall an aggressor killing and destroying indiscriminately when he could hold what he conquered and have the population do his bidding.
The Russians and Germans did a lot of indiscriminate killing and destruction during WWII. I'm talking about raping the women, killing children, taking entire villages out and shooting them and dumping them in mass graves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
433 Posts
Discussion Starter #67
Originally posted by Xracer
Gee, GGB....you're not supposed to ask embarrassingly logical questions like that!
Xracer...the only one he's embarrassed by saying what he said is himself & and anyone who agree's with him...he demonstrate's that he has knowledge of the situation and is foolish enough to still believe we should not act. Other than that his appearant ignorant opinion is embarrassing to American's
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
433 Posts
Discussion Starter #68
Originally posted by Go-Get Beer
Since the crusades I don't recall an aggressor killing and destroying indiscriminately when he could hold what he conquered and have the population do his bidding. I'm waiting anxiously to see the outcome of the fight between the two propaganda machines: Iraqi and US. It will probably end in a bloody guerilla war, but there is hope for peace after this operation yet.
HITLER & HIS NAZI'S COME TO MIND.
Also to add to Snipers explaination of Iraqi resistance....remember that in addition to the Iraqi propaganda we encouraged an uprising after the 91 hostilities and turned our backs on them ,...we will have to earn their trust and we are....then also remember that in areas we don't control the Iraqi 'death squads are telling the Iraqi civilians how to think & what their opinion's will be while holding a gun to their heads & threatening to kill their families if they step out against Saddam...what would you expect them to do ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
GGB, are you indicating that since Poland had to fend for themselves, and endure so many years of tyranny, the people of Iraq should have to do so also. Personally I believe they have suffered long enough at the hands of Saddam Hussein, who by the way is evil incarnate, while the world has turned their back for expedient political ends. It is time that free people, honorable people, good people stand and be counted; not cower as some of you would have us do.

Further, I am amazed and saddened that you chose to cite a Nazi to rationalize your position. I only hope that one day your eyes and heart will be open and see the good that the Coalition Forces are accomplishing.

Lastly, I will leave you with one last quote that I believe to be extremely fitting as our soldiers’ sacrifice their lives so the Iraqi people can truly enjoy peace and freedom.
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing. ' Edmund Burke'
No need to respond to this GGB, we will have to agree to disagree.

Boomer
 
61 - 69 of 69 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top