savage 10ML-II

Discussion in 'Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns' started by soundguy, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Wasn't sure whether to put this I general gun or muzzleloader, because it is a smokeless, inline but still a front stuffer.

    Big article in the local fish wrapper about lots of gun blow UPS, and confidential settlements. Lots of hand, face burns, and missing fingers, some pictures of mid barrel banana peel style ruptures.
     
  2. jedwil

    jedwil Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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  3. Hawg

    Hawg Well-Known Member

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    They should have known better than to rate a muzzleloader for smokeless.
     
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  4. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Ruger has a revolver like that too
     
  5. gvw3

    gvw3 Well-Known Member

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  6. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    Savage probably wished it had never introduced the rifle or heard of Toby Bridges.
     
  7. Hawg

    Hawg Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so.
     
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  8. V509

    V509 Active Member

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    Please post a link for the Ruger.
     
  9. Hawg

    Hawg Well-Known Member

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    The only bp revolver Ruger sold was the Old Army which has been out of production since 08 but they weren't rated for smokeless.
     
  10. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I do remember sportsmans catalog selling the ruger old army saying it could fire smokless.

    I see from a bit of research that ruger proofed the cyls by loading them full of bullseye and stuffing a lead ball on top and touching it off.

    I know I have seen other dealers selling htem saying they can take smokless. Not in the last 3-4 years , but I have sure seen / heard it.

    Suposedly the BP-7 is on a blackhawk frame.

    Over on castboolits there are people in the UK that sent their guns in and had them nitroproofed and shoot them with accordingly small smokless loads. Over at decadecounter they mention this too.

    I can't find the old sportsmans guide add, but I know they mentioned it.

    Probably all this stuff has been pulled due to liability.

    I know you can get conversion cylinders for the '58' style steel guns from many manufacturers for cowboy smokless loads. That tells you that the frame is up to it, and all it boils down to is the cylinder and the nipple thread cross section. That BP-7 used a stainless cyliner.. probably modern specced like the rest of the frame.

    Probably why they pulled it.. too many people were actually firing smokless loads in them or converting them to cartridge.
     
  11. Hawg

    Hawg Well-Known Member

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    You can get conversion cylinders for Italian Colt style revolvers too. They can handle smokeless loads of something like Trail Boss as long as they're within bp pressures. Load them a little too heavy and they don't last long. Maybe the Ruger in cap and ball configuration can and maybe it can't but it's irresponsible to come on a gun forum and say it can when the system itself leads experienced shooters to say it can't without problems.
     
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  12. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Sportsmans guide said it, just repeating what they said.

    Then again.. We are seeing black powder guns exploded by smokeless too.

    Not being irresponsible, just trying to get to the bottom of it.

    Ruger should have never released info that they tested their gun with smokless. As for the UK people? Its apparently working for them, even getting them nitro proofed.

    I personally wouldn't shoot one even with a conversion cyl.

    I'd be more interested I shooting black powder cartridge loads in a modern gun vs the other way.

    I like my 1873 for that.
     
  13. V509

    V509 Active Member

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    Ruger never marketed the ROA as smokeless, seems irresponsible of sportsman’s guide, another reason I don’t care for sg
    I have owned several ROA and am down to my last stainless one,

    Now. Back on subject. I have been wanting a Savage but cannot swallow the asking price. I doubt the majority of owners understand what a couple extra grains of powder can do...
     
  14. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    And the difference in a few grains of smokless vs a few grains of black is huge
     
  15. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    IMHO Savage was asking for trouble when they rated a front stuffer for smokeless. I'm sure the steel used (416 stainless, the same alloy used in stainless cartridge rifles) was up to the task of containing the pressures of the load Savage tested and deemed safe but customers don't always follow load data.

    If someone loaded the wrong powder or used the wrong amount and something bad happens they are going to say they always used Savage's recommendations.

    Savage should have stamped Black Powder or Black Powder Substitutes Only on top of the barrel and they would be in the clear and a lot of people would still have ten fingers.