Schools and US history

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ruffitt, Mar 11, 2003.

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  1. ruffitt

    ruffitt Guest

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    warpig883
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    (12/25/01 9:25:55 pm)
    | Edit | Del All Schools and US history
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    I was sitting around the house after dinner just being lazy and bloated when me and my brother started talking about military battles. We soon came to the topic of Texas and the Alamo. While we marveled at what was done especially with respect to the era (1840's) I noticed my 13 year old daughter was staring at us with a blank look on her face (the other women had deserted us as soon as we started talking). Anyway I asked her if she knew what the Alamo was and if they had taught her about it in school. She said no! Now this did not really surprise me but it did really piss me off. i told her it was one of the greatest stories in the history of the USA and she had to read up on it. I told her some of it and my Mom came in and agreed it is something special.

    I guess I had better crack done and start passing some of this stuff on myself. Might even tie all the kids down in front of the tv and put the history channel on 24/7. Maybe they will learn this stuff in high school history class and I am overreacting but I am still going to talk to the school.

    Remember the battle of the Alamo and all the hero's that died that day.
    We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans... -- Bill Clinton, US President (USA Today, 11 Mar 1993, page 2a)

    Tac401
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    (12/26/01 2:06:48 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Schools and US history
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    WP,

    That's the a big problem with schools today, how can
    a child know the real meaning of patriotism when it is
    suppressed and no American History is taught?


    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    obelix2
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    (12/26/01 2:06:51 pm)
    | Edit | Del This used to be third-grade material
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    I join you both in honoring the heroism of the Alamo's defenders and in deploring what schools today regard as history -- actually, they don't seem to teach history at all anymore. It's encompassed in something called "social studies," which is shorthand for "teach nothing whatsoever about history or geography".

    My own 13-yr-old daughter knows a good deal of history, but she did not learn it in school.

    Whether the Alamo should have been defended in the first place is a topic that probably belongs on a different forum.

    Moskovskyya
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    (12/26/01 2:30:07 pm)
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    Careful now guys, my 3rd great grandfather Col. Benjamin Jackson Franklin who liven in the Texas territory via a land grant, and as a subject of the king of Spain fought with Santa Anna to defend his home from European-American invaders. He was also a hero, more commonly called a Texican, (European Texas Mexican). Texans were Americans and "also" performed heroicly! All were fighting and dieing for what they believed.

    Different name
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    (12/26/01 3:07:38 pm)
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    Hmmm. Les see now.....
    Wasn't Santa Anna ridin a Hertz-Rental Horse that day?
    Charlie D
    Get 3 coupons and a free upgrade
    ifn ya ride one of em in a pitch Battle!









    Betcha it wasn't rented in "HOUSTON"

    Edited by: Different name at: 12/26/01 3:08:45 pm

    obelix2
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    (12/26/01 4:06:09 pm)
    | Edit | Del That's cool
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    No disparaging the Mexicans, either. It was their country, after all. There were former Spanish subjects who fought with the Texicans, and US immigrants who fought against them, both for political (and emotional) reasons.

    Can this be moved to the military forum?

    Flhunter
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    (12/26/01 4:58:54 pm)
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    Seems like if your gonna pass history now a days, you need to answer the questions with the teachers history and not the true history.

    I wonder how many history teachers are fed up and [email protected] off by the fact that they can not teach what really happened the true history.



    Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia.

    obelix2
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    (12/26/01 5:40:22 pm)
    | Edit | Del Only way to tell
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    Polish and me together, against all the social studies teachers in the land? spelldown? historydown?

    Yeah, but you're right. What counts as "true"? Damn, once I taught substitute "social studies" so well that kids were climbing off me to answer. It was a terrific situation, just because all the real social=studies teachers were off learning nonsense.

    There' s no explaining the feeling that might develop between kids who want to learn and a teacher who wants them to learn, but also to think.

    But in this case there was a way to stop it. Learning made noise, and the tenured witch of the southeast appeared, absent her monkeys. But everything I had been trying to accomplish with those kids was gone.



    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2525
    (12/27/01 1:43:26 am)
    | Edit | Del Re: Only way to tell
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    Yeah, it's 'Social Studies..."

    You can teach it if you had a few courses in Economics or Poli Sci in college, with just the history requirement...

    Hell, you can teach it too, if you are a good basketball or football coach and they need someplace to "park" you...

    Most Social Studies teachers know LITTLE more about history than their kids do...

    I always reviewed the books and courses my kids took all through school, and when I "tour" a college with a kid thinking what college they are going to attend, I ALWAYS hit the bookstore...when Mom is buying shirts and souvenirs, I'm checking the History textbooks...tells you ALOT about what they teach...interesting, my daughter is in a private Christian school and I could find NO fault with their "required reading..." all sides, many topics, some classics like "The Rise and Fall of Nazi Germany."

    My son is going to "Ball State," a state school, and there was drivel on history...seemed there was ALOT on the White Man's abuse of "Native Americans," Civil Rights, and Vietnam...Little or NOTHING on WWII!!!

    When my son was in the 4th Grade, he "Volunteered" me for a class lecture on the Civil War...his teacher was pretty cool AND smart...there was one day she didn't have to plan an afternoon...Gosh I had fun, and the kids seemed to like it too...talked about the "new" warfare...and weapons, and got questions, believe it or not on the "role of women..." AND got invited back for a WWII "lesson..." The teacher later showed me the textbook...they had ONE PAGE on the Civil War, and a PAGE and a HALF on WWII!!!!

    Now, considering what they HAVE to cover, it is amazing they get through what they can, and there IS after all 30 more years of US History to cover, since I was in High School...but they DO seem to spend entirely TOO MUCH TIME on "the 60s..."

    Hell, I LIVED through the 60s, it wasn't THAT important...

    But you are so right...get back to History..."Social Studies" is one of the SYMPTOMS of the "dumbing down" of society...while needed, History should be a separate subject, sorry...

    Kinda like it would be eliminating Biology and Chemistry and incorporating it all into "Earth Science..."

    The worst part of all is it is a subject that MUST be taught at home...but most parents today are the result of dumbed down History courses since the 60s, hell, THEY don't know it EITHER!!!

    It all started when people bought the line "The dates aren't important..."

    SHIT! Just like the periodic table isn't impoortant to Chemistry...

    LEARN THE DAMN DATES, it's all you HAVE to put things and movements in perspective, at least to what ELSE was going on around the world at the time something was happening...

    THAT'S why I see headlines like I saw in in our local newspaper on the anniversary of D-Day a few years ago...

    "THE LONGEST DAY-JUNE 6th 1946"
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    warpig883
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    (12/27/01 2:37:40 am)
    | Edit | Del Re: Only way to tell
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    I agree with you Polish on your statement about learn the dates. But I am afraid the kids are learning the lessons oor the stories of what happened. I say tell them the stories and the dates later. I guess it is splitting hairs and it is really a shoame that this stuff is not taught. Kids need heros and role models (as do adults) and there are so many of them living among us that fought WWII but the kids do not know it.

    Tac- I cannot really slam the school my kids go to on patriotism. They still say the Pledge of Allegiance every day. Students raise and lower the flag every day. They are all taught the history and meaning of all the stars and stripes and flag customs. I got a 1st grader and a 3rd grader and a 7th grader and they all know how to fold the flag. They learnnd it at school. You should see those kids fold a flag they got a death grip on it like you won't believe cause they think if it touches the ground the world will end. I am tearing up so cannot go on about this any more.

    it seems like when the text books do cover a significant part of our history is is biased and only gives VERY general info. Maybe the date and the outcome. There are so many GREAT stories that these kids would love and learn from if only they would get the information.

    But it takes a real teacher to do this. I had only 3 teachers who were real teachers. I still think of them to this day.

    One other thing that really gets my goat. My kids go to a school with only 160 students from K-12. These kids got Football, Basketball, Golf, Volleyball, Cheerleading ect ect. I hate to be the bad guy but enough is enough. There are not enough staff or facilities for all this.How the heck can they get an education with all the other stuff going on? Schools need to get out of the entertainment business and sork on the three RRR's.
    We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans... -- Bill Clinton, US President (USA Today, 11 Mar 1993, page 2a)

    Edited by: warpig883 at: 12/27/01 2:42:32 am

    the real fredneck
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    (12/28/01 7:47:57 am)
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    definition of a GREAT social studies teacher?

    some prick that took the basketball team to state last year

    the idea of free and equal public education made our country #1 it is the same thing that will lead to our downfall unless of course Osama's economic jihad does it first

    obelix2
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    (12/28/01 9:56:12 am)
    | Edit | Del The 6th of June, 1946 -- or was that 1496?
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    Heck, they got the day and the month right and were only a couple of numbers off on the year. I'd consider this pretty impressive. If they were talking about some event in the 15th century.

    Fred: What happened to the tradition that basketball coaches get to teach drivers' ed and health? It seemed to work; at least there were '55 Chevies in those days, and no AIDS.
     
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