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It could be a very inaccurate measure. Four lands and grooves, Mitutoyo micrometer. I used a .313" bullet as the slug because the lead 8mm bullet that I had (a fat cast, at .327) was way oversize for the bore. There is every possibility that the .313" didn't expand fully to fill the grooves. It was a commercial bullet and it probably was not pure lead. I have some .316" lead bullets on the way from Buffalo Arms and I'll use one of those for the slug when they arrive, and we'll see what I get. But I still thought that the land diameter was quite small for a 8.15mm. Then again, as has been pointed out, custom barrel makers back then may have thought tighter was better. :D

When I get the Deutscher Book on the 8.15x46R we'll see what the historical experience was...if I can nug my way through the German.
 

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Well horse manure....1st page of the thread, post #6 there's a better picture of the rear sight.

You'll enjoy the "Alte Scheibenwaffen" books. The photography alone is worth the tariff. I believe in Volume 1 that Haenel/Aydt is the first maker they cover. You'll be able to read it but, spoiler alert, I think your rifle as well as both mine fall into that time frame when Herr Aydt was still inspecting every rifle Herr Haenel made. I can't remember it all accurately enough to talk about with confidence but I'll reiterate, you'll enjoy them. I have #1 and #2. The 3rd didn't sound that interesting to me....lemme know whatcha think of it. The descriptions of the matches in Volume 1 are.....indescribable. The only other books I know of on Schuetzen rifles are those in the US and I have two....but blast it if I can remember the names....and I'm not sure which book case they're in. I'll find them.

The book on the cartridge should be interesting, and you need to check the GGCA's site. They have a dedicated Schuetzen page. The ASSRA has some info on the 8.15 also. Matter of fact I wrote an article on my Bartles stalking rifle in 8.15 x 46R for their magazine. I believe there's only 4-5 loads that most folks use. I think I'm loading IMR-4227. Oh, only one of my Schuetzen rifles is 8.15. The other even Axel Eichendorff had not heard of so Dave at CH-4D Dies and I named it "8.7 X 55R". Bullet diameter is .345 and casts 170 gr., give or take and I'm shooting some hoarded SR-4759 in it. When that's gone I expect it will be Reloder 7 or IMR-4227.

Forums - German Gun Collectors Association Forums (germanguns.com)

Griz, I knew there was something about fur's dimensions that had me puzzled. You answered it. I hadn't got to the math yet...lol. He could do a "pounded slug" if he wanted or just wait till the cerrosafe shows up.
 

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.316 sounds more plausible for a .308 bore. That would be .004 per side, most cartridge firing barrels run between .003 and .004.
 
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I gave it a go, but did not have any luck with the "take down". I believe I am ill equipped. I have a tipton gun vise, but it is not secured to any table(not sure that would have helped anyway). I may end up having to take it to the gunsmith in my town. I took it to him before, but with this new knowledge and pictures you provided, we should be able to get that barrel off. BTW I asked my local library for the Alte Scheibenwaffen books and they notified me volume 3 came in. I picked it up last night and began reading, however as Sharps pointed out it has beautiful pictures and information, but it does not appear to have the information I am looking for.
 

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I gave it a go, but did not have any luck with the "take down". I believe I am ill equipped. I have a tipton gun vise, but it is not secured to any table(not sure that would have helped anyway). I may end up having to take it to the gunsmith in my town. I took it to him before, but with this new knowledge and pictures you provided, we should be able to get that barrel off. BTW I asked my local library for the Alte Scheibenwaffen books and they notified me volume 3 came in. I picked it up last night and began reading, however as Sharps pointed out it has beautiful pictures and information, but it does not appear to have the information I am looking for.
As I look back on your photos the takedown "fork" (the mechanism that grasps the barrel) looks like it might be soldered onto the barrel. Mine is not. The previous owner could have decided to solder the barrel in place and not have a takedown rifle anymore. Check to ensure that the barrel is not soldered in place; if so, it will not rotate no matter what you do. Taking it to a gunsmith is probably a good idea if you want to pursue the takedown action. I had to secure mine in a vise (a real vise, bolted to a massive worktable, padded jaws) and turn the action gently with a block of wood. Once I got the first 10 degrees of rotation it can apart slick as silk. The first 10 degrees was designed to be...difficult. It locks the barrel in place tightly. Once I cleaned it up it became much easier. My rifle probably hadn't been cleaned since WW2.
 

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.316 sounds more plausible for a .308 bore. That would be .004 per side, most cartridge firing barrels run between .003 and .004.
So...I just received a box of Buffalo Arms .316 Stop Ring bullets, 180 gr, mold 316160. I pounded one down the bore of my Aydt Schuetzen rifle and I got .312 for the grooves and .308 for the lands. Does that sound about right to you Schuetzen experts? Seems a bit tight to me for 8.15mm x 46R, but what do I know? I will say that I used a generous amount of Bore Butter and it didn't take too much effort to pound the bullet down the bore...1/4" brass rod. Cerrosafe casting tomorrow sometime. What bullet and load do y'all recommend? I'm a newbie to this caliber, have 20 rounds of new Quality Cartridge 8.15mmx46R cases on hand. And I will also say that I am having a hard time getting a decent reading off my micrometer with this bullet...for reasons unknown to me. :mad: Any comments and unredacted wisdom welcome.
 

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Sorry to be so long replying fur, I did not see your last post. .312 is not uncommon. First thing a fella needs to keep in mind is bore/groove diameters on old rifles vary considerably. I have two 8.15's and they aren't close. I remember I size the Bartles stalking rifle to .319. I think it's groove dia. is .316. My Haenel/Aydt Schuetzen is quite a bit smaller and if my rememberer is right it's the same as yours and I size them to .313....because that's the die I have. I shoot a 170 gr. bullet, one a very old Ideal mold of the Loverin style and the other mold is a Lee, 170 gr. round nose. Both are gas check molds and sometimes I gas check, sometimes I don't. Doesn't seem to matter if I do or not, at the velocities I'm shooting and one bullet is as accurate as the other. The stop ring bullet is assuredly traditional but it was developed because of the variance in bore/groove diameters. At least that's what I understand from the GGCA. They usually shoot good from reports I've read.

A light coating of oil was all you needed to slug the bore. If the barrel is slick, once it's in the bore/grooves for a few inches you can usually push the slug through with no more effort than a slightly tight patch.

I just loaded some for my Bartles stalking rifle and I used 20 grs. of Reloder 7. In the Haenel/Aydt I'm shooting the very traditional load of 12 grs. of SR-4759...which powder is no longer in production. There's an IMR-4227 load that's been good as well but I forget the charge weight.
 

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Sorry to be so long replying fur, I did not see your last post. .312 is not uncommon. First thing a fella needs to keep in mind is bore/groove diameters on old rifles vary considerably. I have two 8.15's and they aren't close. I remember I size the Bartles stalking rifle to .319. I think it's groove dia. is .316. My Haenel/Aydt Schuetzen is quite a bit smaller and if my rememberer is right it's the same as yours and I size them to .313....because that's the die I have. I shoot a 170 gr. bullet, one a very old Ideal mold of the Loverin style and the other mold is a Lee, 170 gr. round nose. Both are gas check molds and sometimes I gas check, sometimes I don't. Doesn't seem to matter if I do or not, at the velocities I'm shooting and one bullet is as accurate as the other. The stop ring bullet is assuredly traditional but it was developed because of the variance in bore/groove diameters. At least that's what I understand from the GGCA. They usually shoot good from reports I've read.

A light coating of oil was all you needed to slug the bore. If the barrel is slick, once it's in the bore/grooves for a few inches you can usually push the slug through with no more effort than a slightly tight patch.

I just loaded some for my Bartles stalking rifle and I used 20 grs. of Reloder 7. In the Haenel/Aydt I'm shooting the very traditional load of 12 grs. of SR-4759...which powder is no longer in production. There's an IMR-4227 load that's been good as well but I forget the charge weight.
Much obliged for the info! I have 4227 on the shelf and I will do some research on the loads. Thanks for confirming the size! Cheers!
 

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Ok, on a slightly different thread...I have acquired a new martini style Schuetzen and I need the square-drive wrenchs or drivers to dismount the sights. Does anyone have a source for these square-nut drivers, either modern or antique? Cheers, Furdog
 

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OK, new topic for all Schuetzen fans! Huntington's has received a shipment of actual RWS 8.15mm x 46 R brass. It's not cheap, at $50 a box of 20. But if you need the real thing to feed your Schuetzen rifle, then here it is. They got in around 900 rounds of RWS brass. My System Aydt Type II will not eat the .30-30 conversions OR the Quality Cartridge brass - their rim dimensions are off. But my Type II feeds the real RWS brass without a problem. Get it while you can! Cheers, Furdog
 
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