[Shortonammo]

I had five out of 50 reloads of once shot 357Mag Starline cases that bulged after seating and crimping. I did not trim the cases. Some bulges were minor while two had a structural crease. Since I seated and crimped in the same step (RCBS die), the suggested reason for the bulge on only a few was this: I probably set my crimping die to a shorter case. The bulge probably occurred by over-crimping on cases longer than the others.
Here comes what seems like bad advice.
After removing the bullet and powder in the bulged cartridges, using the Hornady bullet extractor, some advised that I have the options:
1. "Extract the live primers by using the de-capping die. They will not ignite and can be reused."
2. "Cases with slight bulges can be resized as long as there is no structural damage to the case."

I am going to toss the $1.40 worth of cases and primers. It would be foolish of me to do otherwise. Next time I will trim the cases or sort them according to size before seating and crimping.

I am just wondering from experienced reloaders, did the above advice given have any merit or was it just bad advice? Thanks

 

[gdmoody]

Save the primers, it is done all the time, they will not "go off" when being deprimed unless you go wild on them. If the dented ones are not bad, you should be able straighten them out without any problems

I have loaded literally thousands of .357 cases in the almost 50 years of reloading, and have never heard of one being bulged by any reloading process.

 

[zant]

Deprimed and reused 1000s of primers
Never trimmed a handgun case in 30+yrs
DON'T seat and crimp in same die--it;s 2023

 

[Shortonammo]

Save the primers, it is done all the time, they will not "go off" when being deprimed unless you go wild on them. If the dented ones are not bad, you should be able straighten them out without any problems

I have loaded literally thousands of .357 cases in the almost 50 years of reloading, and have never heard of one being bulged by any reloading process.

I put on a face shield just to be safe and gave it a try. The primers came out and the resized cases look good as new. The years of experience on this forum is so valuable to a new reloader. Thanks always.

 

[gdmoody]

I knew it would work and the face shield is a good idea for a"just in case". In my years of reloading I have had two primers "go off" and it was not while depriming them, and it is why I will not use Federal primers.

 

[sharps4590]

It wasn't bad advice. I am convinced it was good advice. It would have been foolish not to follow it.

As previously noted elsewhere I'm selling 10 rifles and two handguns. The auctioneer said it's always good to include a box or two of ammo. Well, for all the rifles all I had was reloads and some were in obsolete and obscure cartridges. I'm not giving my reloads to an auction buyer I have no knowledge of even though they were all mild loads. So, I pulled down about 200 rounds of ammo. I kept all the components. There is no way I was throwing away 200 primers, bullets and powder. I popped them out and put them back in the container. When I use them next they'll be just fine.

As with zant, I've de-primed 1000's of cases over the decades and never has one gone off. Just don't de-prime them like you're killing snakes and you'll be fine.

I watch my revolver cases and trim them when needed for the reason you discovered. If they aren't all the same length the roll crimps won't be consistent and accuracy will be a pipe dream. It might be ok at plinking distances but, as the range increases the difference in crimps rears its ugly head. Bad or inconsistent crimps play hob with accuracy from 50 yards out and once you go over 100 yards you might as well throw rocks.

 

[Shortonammo]

Deprimed and reused 1000s of primers
Never trimmed a handgun case in 30+yrs
DON'T seat and crimp in same die--it;s 2023

I read often that reloaders very seldom if ever trim revolver cases. I figured that is for chambering reasons but was not sure about crimping limits. Most of my cases were at or below 1.590". Those that were over were around 1.592" to 1.595". I did not trim and am not sure if the longer cases are the problem cases. RCBS seating/crimping die instructions mention crushing the case if over crimped. (See bulged cases below that I reference in my post). If I seat the bullet first and crimp separately wouldn't I still need to sort out cases by length to avoid over crimping or under crimping? I am still confused as to what went wrong since responses say this has never happened to them.

 

[Gudaki]

DON'T seat and crimp in same die--it;s 2023

This.^^^^^

 

[PRR1957]

Get a LEE Collet Crimp Die. This die will apply a factory type of crimp which the cartridge case mouth is applied la squeezed crimped with four jaws in the die. This is a different style of crimped as apposed to a roll crimp, which cartridge case length needs to be the same from cartridge to the next cartridge, were as the LEE Collet Crimp die the cartridge case length can vary as much as 0.10” .

The only downside to the LEE crimp die is has to be a separate operation.

As for my loading ammo that requires a crimp that I don’t have a LEE crimp die, when the bullet seating operation, I set the bullet seating die to just seat the bullet. Then I’ll readjust the seating die to then apply the roll crimp. I also have several sets of dies were I purchased a separate bullet seating die with one seating die set to seat bullets and second seating die to apply the roll crimp.

If using a single stage loading press, if a roll crimp is applied, the amount of crimp can be felt if over crimpming is occurring. If using a multi stage/progressive loading press, that tactile feel is not possible.

Bottom line, get a Lee Factory Crimp die.

 

[sharps4590]

Well, like I said before and as others have said, if you're going to have consistent roll crimps, your cases need to be the same length. If you keep them all trimmed to the same length, seating and crimping with the same die is a slam dunk. It's only worked for well over a hundred years. It's only the last couple decades I've heard of so many difficulties seating and crimping with the same die.

Over the years I've had a few that were over crimped but the evidence was the area just below the crimp was bulged a little. The remedy is to remove the de-capping pin from your sizing die and run the cartridge in enough to remove the bulge or, use a taper crimp die.

I've never had cases crushed like the ones you picture. I can't help but believe you should have felt that before it got that far.

 

[jim brady]

Some folks don't trim straight wall pistol cases. I do - at least the first time I reload them. I also size and trim all new unprimed cases. These are "supposed to" be trimmed and ready to load out-of-the box. I've seen these new cases vary in length - sometimes by a lot. I size new cases because I don't know how much they have been tossed around, and also figure that I can make sure the case neck tension will be the same.

Did a double-take on the 2 cases pictured. Man! you must have tried to put one heck of a crimp on those bullets! The bullets had already had the crimp set, and as you forced the press handle something had to "give" (and that was the brass case). Two things I'd suggest:
1.) Trim your cases to the same length;
2.) Ease up on that crimp a tad. The cases only need to hold the bullet in place. No need to go gorilla on the crimping.

 

[Ryan L]

"Extract the live primers by using the de-capping die. They will not ignite and can be reused."

I don't know if this is good advice or not, but it's more fun to shoot the primer (see my avatar) 😜

 

[sharps4590]

I don't know if this is good advice or not, but it's more fun to shoot the primer (see my avatar) 😜

As scarce as primers are, that's out of the question for me.

 

[soundguy]

Reusing the primers and those cases should generally be safe just be a little bit careful most of us have done it and as far as why it happened it looks like you may not have had enough Bell on the case mouth and or you were probably starting to crimp before the bullet was completely seated so like other people mentioned do yourself a favor and have her separate crimp dye or just do it in a separate step I do literally thousands of 38 or 357 a year it's one of my most fired cartridges and I've never trimmed a straight wall pistol case so when you're doing a roll crimp anyway having a thousandth more on a case isn't a big deal it just rolls a little bit deeper now one issue if you're trying to roll crimp a projectile that doesn't have a cannelure that will definitely put some stress Downstream and squish some brass so let's see what projectiles you were using

 

[Shortonammo]

Well, like I said before and as others have said, if you're going to have consistent roll crimps, your cases need to be the same length. If you keep them all trimmed to the same length, seating and crimping with the same die is a slam dunk. It's only worked for well over a hundred years. It's only the last couple decades I've heard of so many difficulties seating and crimping with the same die.

Over the years I've had a few that were over crimped but the evidence was the area just below the crimp was bulged a little. The remedy is to remove the de-capping pin from your sizing die and run the cartridge in enough to remove the bulge or, use a taper crimp die.

I've never had cases crushed like the ones you picture. I can't help but believe you should have felt that before it got that far.

Being new to reloading I didn't know what was a normal tactile feel vs one that creates a bulge. I honestly didn't pay too much attention to that aspect of reloading, but I will now. I am guessing that extra resistance might be a clue.

 

[Shortonammo]

Reusing the primers and those cases should generally be safe just be a little bit careful most of us have done it and as far as why it happened it looks like you may not have had enough Bell on the case mouth and or you were probably starting to crimp before the bullet was completely seated so like other people mentioned do yourself a favor and have her separate crimp dye or just do it in a separate step I do literally thousands of 38 or 357 a year it's one of my most fired cartridges and I've never trimmed a straight wall pistol case so when you're doing a roll crimp anyway having a thousandth more on a case isn't a big deal it just rolls a little bit deeper now one issue if you're trying to roll crimp a projectile that doesn't have a can of lower that will definitely put some stress Downstream and squish some brass so let's see what projectiles you were using

I was using a .357 125 GR Hornady XTP with a cannelure. All bullets ended up seated at the cannelure even the bulged case ones. I never really felt comfortable crimping and seating in one step just to save time. I will definitely take everyone's advice. If there is one thing I have, being retired, it's extra time. Thanks again.

 

[sharps4590]

If you pay attention to it, there's a lot of things the "feel" can tell you. I suspect some of that just comes with time and doing it. None of us got into reloading knowing it all.....or even very much. It truly is a journey and not a destination.

Regarding the crimp; If you're shooting a faster powder such as Bullseye, Unique or 231 a light crimp is all that's needed. Get into 2400, H-110, either 4227 and you'll need a heavier crimp.

 

[Shortonammo]

If you pay attention to it, there's a lot of things the "feel" can tell you. I suspect some of that just comes with time and doing it. None of us got into reloading knowing it all.....or even very much. It truly is a journey and not a destination.

Regarding the crimp; If you're shooting a faster powder such as Bullseye, Unique or 231 a light crimp is all that's needed. Get into 2400, H-110, either 4227 and you'll need a heavier crimp.

I am using around 8.0 grains of Hodgdon HP38 (39 on the Burn rate Chart so somewhat fast) which I believe is the equivalent of Winchester 231. A lighter crimp performed after bullet seating as does a wider bell during the expanding step as recommended by others makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

 

[howlnmad]

Push out the primers and scrap the brass. I've done it with hundreds of pieces.

 

[Old Syko]

Learning one of the most important aspects of reloading known as "feel" is the reason it is a bad idea to start out with anything other than a single stage press. This ability comes with experience only. It is one of the main things I have preached to all I have helped teach reloading to. I've been loading by the thousands for 55 years now and to this day I still learn from it.

Belling the mouth more will only increase crimping problems. You never want to bell more than the minimum necessary. On top of increasing issues with the crimp over-belling results in over working the brass which causes mouth cracking much too early.

Seating and crimping in one step requires that cases be trimmed to a common length. Seating and crimping in separate steps eliminates this requirement as long as case length variation is within what is usually normal. The reason for this has been explained by many different sources over the years which is why reading older info can be so helpful.

The pictured brass is now trash. Lighten up on your crimp setting until you can measure no bulge just below the case mouth and a result such as this will be impossible.

If need be, remove the cylinder from your gun and set it on the bench beside the press and drop each individual finished round into it as part of your loading process to check for flaws. This way you will avoid any chambering issues.

BTW During my 55 years of loading thousands upon thousands of straight walled pistol rounds I have never trimmed that first one and never will. It's a waste of time when you follow proven and well advertised procedures.