SELF DEFENSE INSURANCE?

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by jsjj388, Apr 11, 2017.

DO YOU HAVE IT?

Poll closed Apr 20, 2017.
  1. YES

    6 vote(s)
    27.3%
  2. NO

    16 vote(s)
    72.7%
  1. goofy

    goofy Well-Known Member

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    He shot a man who was not armed and he got involved in something he could have walked away from and he did not wait for the cops who were on there way. He did so many things wrong he is lucky to not have gone to jail for a long time. I could go on and on about what he did wrong. As I said BAD example.
    Mike





    So could I.
    I thought we were talking about defending yourself from eminent danger.
    The woman got busted for traveling across the state line with out proper permit.
    She did not shoot anyone. This is not insurance for breaking the law.
    The man in PA drove up to some one who was breaking the law who was not threating him and drew a weapon (He did not call the cops) he took the law into his own hands and tried to be a hero. Again he did not shoot and was himself in no danger intill HE decided to do a cops job.
    This insurance will not help you here either.

    COME ON GUYS THIS IS A POST ABOUT NEEDING INSURANCE IF YOU NEED TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM EMINENT DANGER.
    I am sure this insurance will not help you for being stupid.

    Please try to use examples of those that did what they had to do. And used a gun when it was absolutely necessary.
    You are going off subject and your examples are not good.
    I am talking about when you kill someone that has threatened you and you are in a kill or be killed situation. Remember if there is a way for you to not shoot like running or calling the cops you can be charged.
    Keep looking I am sure there is at lest one time someone killed someone in self defense.
    That FORCE was necessary. AND LEAGLE. Then they were sued for doing what they had to do.
    Or maybe not.
    Mike
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
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  2. Country101

    Country101 Well-Known Member

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    Goofy, you are assuming this is a perfect world and that all people involved are honest and friendly towards you and your rights or just being argumentative.

    You can be fully justified but the cops not be able to find the proper evidence to show it and be charged. You could be fully justified but some prosecutor doesnt think you should be able to use firearms and you could be charged. You could be fully justified, but not articulate everything in your statements and you could be charged. You could be justified but somebody interprets the law a little different and you could be charged. You are going to have to bail out and/or pay lawyer fees whether you are ultimately right or not. Then you have the civil suits by scumbags, a counter suit is not going to get you anything. They dont have anything and are just looking for a free meal, most likely. You are going to have to foot the bill for a lot of costs, even if just up front for criminal as well as civil. If you dont have it, you are also going to have to find your own lawyers who have experience in the field, adding to the stress.

    In a perfect world, no, you shouldnt need it, but you wouldnt have to defend your life from another human being either.
     
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  3. goofy

    goofy Well-Known Member

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    Your last statement is so true.
    But I disagree with your other words.
    Mike
     
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  4. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    I dunno. When police show up on a scene.. their prime concern is preserving evidence.. and if it's not 100% clear cut.. you are getting detained. You might get released.. but even in a good shooting.. you COULD BE detained.

    if you are detained.. you could be missing work.

    If you have to go talk to a lawyer, you could be missing work.

    On your days in court, you could be missing work.

    So.. you MIGHT have done nothing wrong.. but might be detained, and could miss work.

    Florida law is mostly pro 2nd amendment.. but there are a few bugs. Currently, instead of innocent until proven guilty... if you plan on a 'stand your ground self defense' defense... you actually have to go to court and PROVE your innocence first. That's not civil, that's int he criminal court system, and you better have a lawyer. So.. even if not arrested, you very likely are going to have criminal defense costs. even if it's that easy. Cops show.. look around.. decide that yeah.. it could be self defense.. don't arrest you, but then the next day you have to come down for questioning ( miss work ).. and then you have to go hire a lawyer and talk to him ( miss more work, pay money for a criminal defense lawyer ). then you have to go to that special PRE hearing to see if you really can use your defense ( miss work, and pay your criminal defense lawyer ).

    During this time, you MAY not be able to travel out of your county during the open investigation, likely definately not out of state or country. I work in a 3 county area, DAILY. On occasion.. it's more like a 6 county area. That would be difficult if I was required to stay in my county of residence. I'd be loosing money in the short term, and my job in the long term.

    Civil suit / counter suit? Given that the person sueing you may have less than nothing.. good luck. Half of their food stamps and govt housing probably won't even be worth the cost to file a counter suit.. the people suing int he first place are usually judgement proof and know this and thus have nothing to loose by throwing darts blindly.. anything they get is more than they had.

    How about the case of the guy that shot the 3 home invaders.. One of the invaders realatives investigated a civil suit because the victim could have just shot them int he legs and it wasn't a fair fight.

    that's the kind of BS we will face if we are stuck defending ourselves.

    Mind you.. florida is better than other places with some civil suit protection.. but I've actualy received legal advice onthe specific wording of the flordia law.

    Florida law doesn't prevent a civil suit ( if you are innovent ).. it merely provides a way to have the suit dismissed. Meaning you still have to have a lawyer do some paperwork for you on the civil side, even if you are generally safe.

    All that adds up to needing 1-2 lawyers minimum, and missing some days of work minimum, witht he possibility of missing alot of work, untill details are sorted out.. and the wheels of justice turn pretty slow...

    That's not even a worst case situation... That's actually a pretty good case situation... I'd call GZ a worst case situation..

    Not arguing.. just saying I believe their are hidden costs ...
     
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  5. goofy

    goofy Well-Known Member

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    I can see this is going to go on and on so I will just have to say to agree to disagree.
    Mike
     
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  6. jsjj388

    jsjj388 Well-Known Member

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    Goofy, since you are asking for examples, I will give you one that is perfectly relevant and one only tangantly relevant.


    1) My cousin who lives here in NC not far from me, had his house broken into one night. He grabs his shotgun and and shoots the man in the chest as he charges across his living room in the dark. The intruder goes down and the cops are called. When they arrive they detain the home owner as is protocol. But there is a problem. The intruder is found to be unarmed. He is taken to the hospital and survives. The home owner is taken downtown and locked up for shooting an unarmed man, even though he was in his own house. He has very little money, cant post bail and has to wait until his case comes up. He was later cleared of any wrong doing, but still owes out his a$$ for lawyer fees. Then there was an attempted civil suit, but luckily he was able to get that dropped. still owes the lawyer.


    2) My BIL who is autistic, was accused of sexual assault. We all know he didnt do it, his case worker knew he didnt do it, it was impossible that it happened the way he was accused of doing it. But none the less, he was arrested, sent to jail, and didnt get to graduate high school, all because of a false claim that was later proven to be entirely false. The kid missed walking across the stage at graduation and had to do time in jail for a crime he was later found innocent of.


    Point being, if we lived in a perfect word we wouldnt need guns for defense and wouldnt need any insurance for self defense. But we dont. If you are made of money and can pay for all the thousands of dollars of up front and long term costs of having to defend yourself, then no, you dont really need insurance. If you are an average joe, it seems this would be a good option. Lets say you get the insurance and pay $160/yr for it. Over 40 yrs thats $6400. You have to kill someone, youre covered. I am sure there will be some odd expenses that arent covered, but that is a lot of coverage. Now lets say you dont have the insurance and have to kill someone. You could end up in jail, even if only temporarily, its a lot harder to get a lawyer from a cell. You have to pay the lawyer, you have to miss work, you are away from your family. Then you have a civil suite after the criminal trial. Youre out 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars, even if you win. Seems like a simple choice to me if you have $20 left over at the end of the month........
     
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  7. Country101

    Country101 Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough.
     
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  8. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    I just pulled this from an article from a Wisconsin newspaper ( online ??version ). Appears to be from 2012, and was about homeowners insurance mostly not covering intentional acts.

    ""Anyone who has obtained or might obtain a concealed-carry license and is considering carrying a firearm for self-defense needs to know what their insurance covers, said Paul Bucher, former Waukesha County district attorney, who is now in private practice.

    Bucher represented an Okauchee man who shot and killed an intruder in August. The shooting was ruled as justified. Homeowners insurance did not cover the shooter's legal expenses, Bucher said.

    "It's an issue that folks just don't think about because they don't think they'll ever be in a situation where they have to use deadly force," Bucher said.

    If you're involved in a shooting, whether you have the proper insurance coverage is "the last thing on your mind, of course," Bucher added. "But I can assure you that it's not the last thing on the family's mind of the person who is now laying dead in your living room."

    Even if the shooting is ruled justifiable, "Anybody can be sued," Bucher said, and it is going to cost money to defend yourself.

    "Whether you win or lose on liability issues, you still have to defend it, because your insurance company is probably going to decline coverage," he said.
    ""
     
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  9. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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  10. dbcooper

    dbcooper Well-Known Member

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    I think that's the best way to handle it also
    Please endure my one last statement on the matter and it is only my humble opinion I submit

    I spend $240 per year for me and my wife for pre paid legal insurance in all matters pertaining to gun use for self defense and legal use
    If I should need it, I will have an attorney who is working for ME and has MY best interest he is working for.
    I don't mind paying that for that kind of service and peace of mind
    The police and the prosecutor will nail your butt if they even think there is a chance they can get away and even if you end up walking away you may be broke
     
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  11. TigerLeo

    TigerLeo Well-Known Member

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    Goofy I understand where you are coming from. The lady who crossed state lines, yes, she didn't have the permit. However in that case I would believe journeyman's law should have taken precedence, but w/o a lawyer, well who knows. You have insurance one your vehicles? I would imagine so. You are a careful driver I'm sure. But everyone else isn't. You have insurance on your business? As I recall from some of out previous conversations you do. As a gunsmith you are careful, and won't do anything you aren't confident about, but you still have insurance, just in case. Even though I do everything right in life, u can't expect everyone around me to follow suit. If you don't want it, the good news is, the previous residents of 1600 Pennsylvania didn't get their mitts on that insurance, so you don't have to have it. But for some it is that peace of mind, much the same reasons many of us carry to begin with. We wish to have it and NOT need it, and pray to never need it, and NOT have it. That's all I wanted to say on the subject. Not trying to rile you up or anything, just wanted to share my 2 cents in it.
     
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  12. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    This question came up at my last CCW class. The instructor is an expert witness for firearms. He has had to sign nomdisclosure agreements with insurance companies to not disclose which companies cover shooting incidents.

    His take on these self defense insurance is that they are useless. He said, get an umbrella policy instead.

    I do have coverage with the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Fund which is not insurance but a network that does cover some of the costs and intervenes early to keep things from going sideways. They have an Impressive group of experts including Mas Ayoob and John Farnum.

    They continue to build the network and the legal defense fund which gives them more freedom to provide more help to individuals. Being involved in a shooting incident I suspect not something I ever want to experience. Avoidance is the best defense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
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  13. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    well said. no arguments here . ( on either side )
     
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  14. marlin795

    marlin795 Well-Known Member

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    I have USCCA. I hope I never have to find out if it works or not.
     
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  15. crystalphoto

    crystalphoto Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I just signed with USCCA, lets pray I never need them.
     
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