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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok I got a 9mm factory crimp die and was able to set it up for my makarov round. It helped alot and looks great and passes the plunk test in my guns barrel. Still having issues with the 9mm. COL on my reload is 1.15. Factory round FMJ 1.14 Book says 1.16. So this good. Measured .37 at the crimp on the factory and my reload. My reload will not pass the plunk test. It will only drop so far into my barrel and then stop. I twisted the reload while in the barrel and you can see the marks on the lead right at the bevel start of the bullet. About a 1/8 in up from the case mouth. I'm still getting scuff marks from my resizing die after using cleaning the inside out. I also see a slight bulge up at the scuff sight but the measurement at the scuff is ..375 and in the middle of the case it is .386. Might just be the light. But the main issue is it will not drop into the chamber and the chamber seems to rub on the bullet almost like it is to big.
Where am I going wrong. Are these dies still giving me problems with the marks or what is it????

Using Missouri 115 gr parabellum . The only col data I can find on lead bullets is off the hodgdon site and it list FMJ at 1.16 and the lead at 1.10 ?????
 

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Doc - you have me scratching my head on this one. Are you reloading 9X18 Makarov or 9X19 (9mm Luger)? Those are two different cats. When you said you have that 'factory 9mm crimp die' (standard 9mm Luger - 9X19?), if you are using it to crimp 9X18 Makarov you are getting one heck of a crimp.

From the basics, if your rounds are failing the 'plunk test', it is very likely one of two things: Either your cases are not full length re-sized down to factory specifications, OR the 'flair' or 'bell' that you needed to make at the case mouth (for the bullet to start into the case mouth) was not crimped back down when you seated the bullet. I've always found it to be a good idea to treat even brand-new unfired brass just like I do my fired cases - size them and trim to length before reloading.

Use your calipers and measure an unfired round of ammunition. Take the same measurements from the rounds you have reloaded and see if there is a difference. That should tell you where you are at.
 

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FWIW; those lead loads look pretty long. Look at the ogive/curve of the bullet. The full bullet diameter goes pretty far up the bullet; closer to the nose. Look at the jacketed bullet, the full diameter looks to be a lot lower than the lead bullets. I know it's not 9mm, but a common problem arises with some Lee 45 ACP molds. One mold (1R) has a bullet shape with a blunt/short ogive and that particular bullet must be seated way deeper than the other Lee design (2R). Your lead bullets seem to have a comparatively
shorter ogive, more blunt and may need to be seated deeper.

BTW, wasp-waisted cartridges is common in 9mm reloads, so I wouldn't worry about that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Ok sort of answer some of my own questions. COL out of the Hodgdons table for lead on a 115 gr, is 1.100. I was seating the bullets to the FMJ COL which is 1.16 111 My bad !!!!!!
I'm loading 9mm luger 9x19. The crimp die is a 9mm 9x19 but I can use it also more the makarov round . I just have to adjust it in or out. I have not loaded any standard 9mm yet as I'm trying to set my dies up. My Makarov dies are already set and I have loaded around 150 of those and they work fine
The adjusted the seat die to run the bullet deeper into the case and it know measures 1.100. :)
Know when I do the plunk test it goes in alot farther but it still does not match the factory round as to how far it goes in. It is a lot closer but not exact. If I go deeper with the seat it will or course let the case drop farther into my barrel. The COL is dead on know but the little bit of difference is this ok or should I seat deeper to match the factory round but will be under the 1.100 COL and maybe closer to 1.070 instead. Do I leave the COL at 1.100 or drop it so it matches the factory round in the barrel. You can see the little bit of difference in these two other pics

These are one time fired brass
 

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Is the brass your are loading 9mm Luger or 9x18 makarov. The Makarov is slightly larger diameter than the Luger and that might be causing scratches on the brass if you are using 9mm dies and 9X18 Makarov brass. I'm not sure but the makarov brass might not fit the chamber on a 9mm Luger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Is the brass your are loading 9mm Luger or 9x18 makarov. The Makarov is slightly larger diameter than the Luger and that might be causing scratches on the brass if you are using 9mm dies and 9X18 Makarov brass. I'm not sure but the makarov brass might not fit the chamber on a 9mm Luger.
Trying to set my 9mm Luger dies up
Using 9mm luger brass.One time fired.. I figured out my COL. I placed a new bullet into the barrel and then followed it up with a one time fired case not resized. I then pushed down until it seated and carefully removed it and measured it. It was 1.090. I then subtracted .015 from that and came up with 1.075 !!!
I believe this maybe my new magic number for this bullet. It know passes the plunk clunk test:D
 

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FWIW; those lead loads look pretty long. Look at the ogive/curve of the bullet. The full bullet diameter goes pretty far up the bullet; closer to the nose. Look at the jacketed bullet, the full diameter looks to be a lot lower than the lead bullets. I know it's not 9mm, but a common problem arises with some Lee 45 ACP molds. One mold (1R) has a bullet shape with a blunt/short ogive and that particular bullet must be seated way deeper than the other Lee design (2R). Your lead bullets seem to have a comparatively
shorter ogive, more blunt and may need to be seated deeper.
This is what I'm seeing too. A short ogive bullet.
I think the cast bullets you've got pictured need to be seated deeper so they aren't contacting the rifling quite as much.

Typically, running cast lead through an autoloader you do want the bullet to be just resting on the rifling...no bullet jump on firing. From what you've got pictured you need to seat the bullets until they pass the plunk test with the rear of the case equivalent to a factory loaded round.

The overall length dimension is specific to each style of bullet, not generic for all bullets of a given weight. As you're seeing, you are needing to modify the dimension you found on the Hodgdon site for the specific bullet you're using and also for the rifling leade in your gun's barrel.
 

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It's already been said, but, the first thing I noticed is that the two lead bullets are sticking way too far out of the brass. Seat them bad boys a little deeper!
 

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Are you using .365 bullets in the Makarov? Did you clean the die? Are the cases lubed, or are you using a carbide die?
 

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Some one please correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't notice anyone mentioning this...

If seating deeper, don't forget to start at minimum load or maybe a little lighter in this case.
I believe your .035" shorter than what the book calls for. Watch your pressure.
 

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Some one please correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't notice anyone mentioning this...

If seating deeper, don't forget to start at minimum load or maybe a little lighter in this case.
I believe your .035" shorter than what the book calls for. Watch your pressure.
Yup, I don't think anyone (including myself) mentioned the need to back off the powder charge to the starting load and work up again from there with the new seating length. That is a very good point to mention!


Back to the seating depth.
Unless laserdoc can verify which mold Missouri used (and the "correct" seating depth for that particular bullet), and/or find out which 115gr LRN bullet Hodgdon used to develop their data, there is no published COAL length for his combination.
-1.100" on the Hodgdon site. But with what bullet? Also, that is a maximum cartridge overall length dimension for whatever bullet was used.
-MBC's 115gr LRN. No recommended COAL dimension listed on it's web page.

Laserdoc is on the right path with doing the plunk test to find the correct seating depth for that bullet in his pistol's barrel. That is part of the proper method for finding the optimum seating depth. The other step of finding the correct depth is to see if the chosen seating depth will feed through the magazine into the chamber.
With some bullets and.or some pistols, the proper length for reliable feeding is shorter than the proper seating depth for a "no jump" chamber fitment. On another pistol, it might be the exact opposite situation. Thus, both need to be checked when developing a load.

The COAL length listed in any manual isn't set in stone as the correct length. It's just a guideline to fit inside the SAAMI max dimension template. The correct length needs to be checked for each firearm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Are you using .365 bullets in the Makarov? Did you clean the die? Are the cases lubed, or are you using a carbide die?
cases lubed,,,no,, carbide die yes,,,,cleaned yes /found a bit of rust inside and took 800 grit sandpaper to it/ Not loading Makarov on these. My bullets are .356
9mm luger.
Yes I will be starting out with a lesser powder charge cause I'm using a smaller OAL than listed.
I have come up with 1.075. I will be starting out at 3.8 gr.
3.8, 4.0, 4.2, 4.4, 4.6gr. This is a spread which will give me 5 incremental loads that's sure to find me a happy target load.
 

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I'd say slow down and concentrate on one caliber at a time. I get a bit confused when you mix up Makerov and Parabellum in the same question. Get one down pat and then start on the other, you pick which one...
 
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