Anyone loading them? Most of my hunting rounds are Hornady SP either 150 gn or 165 gn fpr anything .30 caliber. Going to load some 6.5 for the Swede Mauser and the new to me Creedmoor. Concerned about the Swift not expanding on deer at distances of 200 yds and under.
SilasW
you may be under estimating the A-frame. It has a thin skin jacket lead core that expands back to the base. I would use it as an anchoring shot to the shoulder.
Its hard to beat Hornady bullets for killing power in any caliber.
The 140spbt in a 270 will drop deer dead out to 300yrs without any problems with a well placed shot.
Its hard to beat Hornady bullets for killing power in any caliber.
The 140spbt in a 270 will drop deer dead out to 300yrs without any problems with a well placed shot.
I wouldn't have any reservations taking on "Ol Ephraim" with my 450/400 and one of the 410 gr. cast bullet loads I have worked up for it....and I can think of a lot of others I've worked up over the decades I'd feel just as good with, smokeless and black powder.
I've always had great results with the Hornady bullets. Same with Remington C/L. Never used the Swift brand before, Had a bad experience with the Speer Hot-Core's a couple of years ago. No expansion at all. Just like shooting military ball ammo. I loaded rounds for my brother out of the same box of bullets and he had the exact results I did. No more Speer for me.
Swift is about twice the price of Hornady. Just checking to see if others had good results with them. Apparently they work fine.
Swift is about twice the price of Hornady. Just checking to see if others had good results with them. Apparently they work fine.
I've switched to mono bullets for the most part. I use Barnes TTSX, Hornady GMX and Nosler E-tips in my .243, 30.06 and .375 H&H for hunting. I like Hornady SST's or Interlocks and Sierras for target shooting. I quit using cup and core bullets for hunting because of them fragmenting and leaving lead in the meat.
If a bullet goes in one side, destroy's the inside and exit's the other side, what advantage do premium bullet's have?
I have used 140gr spbt Hornaday bullets for many years and they are deadly. I have only recovered one bullet from the neck of a medium size deer. the bullet still retained 128grs of its weight, one peddle had broken off. as far as lead in the meat ???
get out the box of cereal in the kitchen and drag a magnet over the cereal in the bag. and we eat this?
get out the box of cereal in the kitchen and drag a magnet over the cereal in the bag. and we eat this?
The lead left in game from projectiles is a solid. It passes through our digestive tract in a day or so. I doubt it has ever or ever will make anyone sick, raise the lead levels in their blood or kill anyone. What I've always read is, if I get it right, lead oxide, that white powdery substance you see on cast bullets or other lead that has sat for a while, is what is dangerous and, fumes from lead heated over I think 800 or 900 degrees. I think someone has an agenda, (ya think?!?!), to completely ban lead and this is just one more step in the journey.
Now, premium bullets? I believe how quickly the animal is incapacitated and dies is a much better measure of the performance of any bullet than how much the expansion of a bullet or the size of the wound channel. Of the almost 100 head of big game I've killed it's about a 50/50 split with half being cast and the other half cup & core jacketed bullets and a few premium bullets that were available back then, before I went nearly completely cast. I had more game drop in its tracks when using cast bullets than any cup & core or premium bullet. Meat loss was always a heck of a lot less with cast than the other two. That really isn't a very large sampling but it is my experience and I can't ignore what I've seen. A side benefit is my cast bullets cost me less than a penny apiece, any caliber or weight. Shot placement among the two groups of bullets was about equal except that I never did a spine shot with cast and did have two or three with jacketed bullets. Oh, wait, I did break the back, right between the shoulder blades, of a 7 point buck with a 50 cal. flintlock. Shot was maybe 10 feet very nearly straight down.
That isn't to say cast bullets are better than the other two. It IS to say that neither of the other two kill any better than a good cast bullet on thin skinned game. Of course, Forsyth had no issues with taking on the most dangerous game on the planet with hardened lead round balls....in rifles of excruciatingly slow twist and immense powder charges. Definitely not the same thing we're talking about but those hardened lead balls weren't much more than about #15 on today's BHN scale.
Now, premium bullets? I believe how quickly the animal is incapacitated and dies is a much better measure of the performance of any bullet than how much the expansion of a bullet or the size of the wound channel. Of the almost 100 head of big game I've killed it's about a 50/50 split with half being cast and the other half cup & core jacketed bullets and a few premium bullets that were available back then, before I went nearly completely cast. I had more game drop in its tracks when using cast bullets than any cup & core or premium bullet. Meat loss was always a heck of a lot less with cast than the other two. That really isn't a very large sampling but it is my experience and I can't ignore what I've seen. A side benefit is my cast bullets cost me less than a penny apiece, any caliber or weight. Shot placement among the two groups of bullets was about equal except that I never did a spine shot with cast and did have two or three with jacketed bullets. Oh, wait, I did break the back, right between the shoulder blades, of a 7 point buck with a 50 cal. flintlock. Shot was maybe 10 feet very nearly straight down.
That isn't to say cast bullets are better than the other two. It IS to say that neither of the other two kill any better than a good cast bullet on thin skinned game. Of course, Forsyth had no issues with taking on the most dangerous game on the planet with hardened lead round balls....in rifles of excruciatingly slow twist and immense powder charges. Definitely not the same thing we're talking about but those hardened lead balls weren't much more than about #15 on today's BHN scale.
I've taken several deer using cast round ball as well as lead conical from .50 cal. B/P guns. Both laid the smack down on them. Haven't used any cast with smokeless powder yet.
I'm trying to achieve around 2700 fps in the 6.5 without using the max loading in a 140 gn bullet. According to the information I have the Swift A-Frame does this. My concern with expansion comes from the bad experience with the Speer Hot Core. They punched a clean hole and the deer ran a long way before it expired. Tracking it took hours and was difficult to say the least.
My .30 cal. loads using the 150-165 gn are moving at about the 2700 speed. This seems to be the "sweet spot" for my rifles. Duplicating this in a rifle with less recoil is what I'm trying to end up with.
I'm trying to achieve around 2700 fps in the 6.5 without using the max loading in a 140 gn bullet. According to the information I have the Swift A-Frame does this. My concern with expansion comes from the bad experience with the Speer Hot Core. They punched a clean hole and the deer ran a long way before it expired. Tracking it took hours and was difficult to say the least.
My .30 cal. loads using the 150-165 gn are moving at about the 2700 speed. This seems to be the "sweet spot" for my rifles. Duplicating this in a rifle with less recoil is what I'm trying to end up with.
A round nose or semi-spire pointed cast bullet will act just like that Speer you mentioned, Silas. I can't recall I ever used a Speer bullet for hunting. No reason other than "back then" they were very scarce in my part of the country. Hornady Interlock's and Sierra Game King's were the most popular and you could get Nosler Partitions....which are not one bit better or much different from the a930's "TUG" bullet from Germany....or is it their Torpedo? I can't keep them straight. The Partition wasn't anything new in the world of hunting back then and it's still a good bullet...as are the two mentioned.
I wasn't very clear on one point in my praise of cast bullets. I am convinced their effectiveness on game is largely due to the shape of the bullet. They need to have a wide meplat that cuts a nearly full caliber hole....all the way through. The old Keith type semi-wadcutter is an excellent example in a handgun and virtually all mold makers offer good hunting bullets for rifles with an adequate meplat.
Ultimately, a person needs to use the bullet he has complete confidence in. There ain't no fly's on the Swift bullets from what I read and hear from those who use them.
I wasn't very clear on one point in my praise of cast bullets. I am convinced their effectiveness on game is largely due to the shape of the bullet. They need to have a wide meplat that cuts a nearly full caliber hole....all the way through. The old Keith type semi-wadcutter is an excellent example in a handgun and virtually all mold makers offer good hunting bullets for rifles with an adequate meplat.
Ultimately, a person needs to use the bullet he has complete confidence in. There ain't no fly's on the Swift bullets from what I read and hear from those who use them.
Some of the bullets I have used to take Deer. They range in size from 70# up to 150#
The only one I didn't like and will probably not load again was the 130gr Nosler BT. I shot a 85# spike and blew it in half, wasted a lot of meat. I shot a large doe with the Grand Slam she was hit behind the shoulder and ran over 200 yards, Still don't believe it.
The deep curl Speer 150gr in a 270, I shot a 475# cow elk and it never knew what hit it, Stood there for about 10- 15 seconds and went down.
I shot a 50 round box of Swift A frame in my 300 win. I took it Bear hunting a couple time to Maine. Never had the chance to shoot one.
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The only one I didn't like and will probably not load again was the 130gr Nosler BT. I shot a 85# spike and blew it in half, wasted a lot of meat. I shot a large doe with the Grand Slam she was hit behind the shoulder and ran over 200 yards, Still don't believe it.
The deep curl Speer 150gr in a 270, I shot a 475# cow elk and it never knew what hit it, Stood there for about 10- 15 seconds and went down.
I shot a 50 round box of Swift A frame in my 300 win. I took it Bear hunting a couple time to Maine. Never had the chance to shoot one.
I thin it might help if people considered the shot they take. Somehow get the same exact shot from the same distance at any animal and place the shot exactly the same and a good well chosen cup and core that penetrate's completely will give the same result as any premium bullet. Trick is to choose the bullet properly to kill more than fly! I cast for a 308 but have never hunted big game with the cast bullet. I suspect the only limiting factor with them might be range! I don't get near the velocity with them as with cup and core and I suspect a poorly selected cup and core would let you down long before a good cast bullet. I keep thinking I need to try out my 308 on big game; maybe this year!
Don, You need to do that. 200gr bullet moving at 2000f/s.
shot something close to that in my Model 99 savage.
killed a couple deer and then got star struck with the 270.
shot something close to that in my Model 99 savage.
killed a couple deer and then got star struck with the 270.
Shot placement is always critical with any type bullet. If I can't get a heart/lung shot on a deer I don't take it. The most expensive bullet in the world isn't going to work if it's not placed where it belongs.
The only rifle I have (other than BP) that I have cast bullets for is a 45-70 and I haven't hunted with it yet. Who knows? I may fall in love with the 405 gn hunks of lead and never look back.
If the Swift's work well in the 6.5 I might stay with it. If it's no better than the Hornady or Core Lokt I use now, why pend the extra money. There are some big ol' bruiser bucks in the area I hunt. Not just antler size but body weight. Might seem silly to some, but that extra 200 fps gives me a boost of confidence.
The only rifle I have (other than BP) that I have cast bullets for is a 45-70 and I haven't hunted with it yet. Who knows? I may fall in love with the 405 gn hunks of lead and never look back.
If the Swift's work well in the 6.5 I might stay with it. If it's no better than the Hornady or Core Lokt I use now, why pend the extra money. There are some big ol' bruiser bucks in the area I hunt. Not just antler size but body weight. Might seem silly to some, but that extra 200 fps gives me a boost of confidence.
405 gr....or more, (I shoot a 480 in my 45-90 Shiloh)....of cast bullet, (provided it's a good hunting shape), will anchor ANY deer, elk, moose, hog or any other critter in the lower 48 and a lot of Canada and the Arctic....all at about 1200 fps.
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