Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by jack404, Jun 16, 2012.

  1. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    A Sydney Baptist Church pastor has spoken out against an anti-gay marriage letter that was read to some Christian parishioners this morning.

    The heads of the Catholic, Anglican and Greek Orthodox churches addressed Sydney church goers today, reading a letter to parishioners in a coordinated campaign ahead of further parliamentary discussion on the issue this week.

    But Pastor Mike Hercock from the Surry Hills Baptist Church says it is simply fear-mongering.

    He says Christians should be able to make decisions for themselves.


    "Of the various churches that will have that statement read out in their pulpits from Baptist churches, Anglicans and Catholic, how many of them will have an opportunity to respond to an alternative perspective?" he said.

    "It will be clergy down. And yet we know that Christians have the ability to make their minds up for themselves."

    The head of the Greek Orthodox Church has written to his congregation saying that altering the traditional form of marriage is, in his view, against the sacredness of marriage and of the family as taught by the Christian faith.

    Sydney's Anglican Archbishop Peter Jensen says the campaign is about defending the institution of marriage for all.

    "It's one of the fundamentals of the whole of our civilisation and any change to the legislation about marriage is going to impact everybody," he said.

    he decided to act after the Catholic Church told him it would be circulating anti-gay marriage material on Sunday.

    'Blatant scaremongering'

    The Greens say parishioners who hear views from the pulpit about gay marriage are being misled.

    The Greens today launched their own video campaign, calling on Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott to step away from the debate and allow a free vote.

    Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young says the message being presented to church goers is one-sided.

    "It's sad that in churches this morning they are only going to be presented with one view," she said.

    "Frankly it's scaremongering at its most blatant.

    "The legislation before parliament will not force church groups to marry anybody they don't want to. The legislation is about removing discrimination in the Marriage Act."

    Senator Hanson-Young says Ms Gillard and Mr Abbott are out of step with the majority of people and other world leaders and are simply "delaying the inevitable".

    Reports into two separate bills by Greens MP Adam Bandt and Labor MP Stephen Jones will be tabled in the House of Representatives tomorrow.
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2012
  2. whymememe

    whymememe Former Guest

    Oct 29, 2011
    FEMA Region IV
    I read the first sentence and I know it stinks. let's go shoot some water melons

  3. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    This guy got on the TV and stated that the enemy of gay marriage is ignorance

    so a Belief in God's word is Ignorance ..

    mmmmm k

  4. raven818

    raven818 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2011
    Jax, Fl.
    The churches here are doing the same, led by the Catholics who started it. They may as well be pizzin in the wind. With the rainbow king in office, they're just beating their heads against the wall.
  5. Archie

    Archie Active Member

    Mar 6, 2005
    Hastings, Nebraska; the Heartland!
    I'd like to hear Hercock's full reason and logic for opposing the other churches. I might oppose something which supported my beliefs but contained a 'poison pill' clause.

    Just for the tally book, I believe marriage is the union of a man and woman based on God's plan for humanity, not a legal permission to live together and make whoopee. I think homosexuals should be able to do what they want with whoever agrees to it; and even will their possessions to their partner. But that's not the same as marriage in my book.

    Just strikes me as odd this fellow Hercock seemingly doesn't think marriage is what I think it is. I've been a Baptist most of my life.
  6. jedwil

    jedwil Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Sep 11, 2009
    Texas Hill Country
    I find myself agreeing with you again tonight. But I am not a Baptist.
  7. raven818

    raven818 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2011
    Jax, Fl.
    IMO, that's why this country finds itself in the position we are in now. It amounts to the...if it don't involve me, why should I care. Kinda like the old story of a woman being raped on the sidewalk in New York, and folks walking around her while she's screaming for help. Hey, not my problem.

    Well, now it is 'my' problem. Kids are being taught about homos in school, and...if they 'feel' like being a girl, instead of a boy, or they 'feel' like being a boy, instead of a girl, it's great, kid. Do your thing.

    My Two Daddies...Ain't life grand. :bleh:
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
  8. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    if they want to join civil ceremony covers them but marriage is a Holy thing

    and forcing a church to recognize a sinful union .. thuggery , standover , extortion

    a marriage is blessed by God , what the heck you think he'll do with this ?? bless it ??


    but the fact is these people are forcing our faith to surrender and i think its wrongb

    i will not be a part of any organised religion because of these actions , it dont matter which brand you follow they all listen to the humanist and socialists more than they listen to God or follow His Word


    from two words


    and legion

    relian means to lead or control

    legion means many

    religion in this case is leading many straight to hell and damnation

    end of story
  9. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    Guess it aint the end of the story , the bapist national college here in Oz has announced it will endore the Proud schools program

    from todays printed news

    The thought police telling kids heterosexuality's not the norm

    Direct from the USA the latest educational program

    how to make your kids gay

    SO now it's a thought crime to regard heterosexuality as the norm in human relationships.

    This is called "heterosexism", joining racism and sexism as the new no-go zone, and the Proud Schools pilot program rolled out to 12 Sydney and Hunter high schools over the past two terms is aimed at stamping it out.

    The American based program defines "heterosexism" as the practice of "positioning heterosexuality as the norm for human relationship", according to the Proud Schools Consultation Report. "It involves ignoring, making invisible or discriminating against non-heterosexual people, their relationships and their interests. Heterosexism feeds homophobia."

    So there it is. If you think the vast majority of people are attracted to the opposite sex and that heterosexual human relationships are the norm, you are feeding homophobia according to US government experts.

    The state government would prefer you didn't know about its Proud Schools program against homophobia, "transphobia" and "heterosexism".

    It features professional learning for teachers, "celebrations of diversity for students" and "embedding discussion of sexuality and gender diversity into the classroom".

    Education Minister Adrian Piccoli wants you to think it is all the work of his predecessor Verity Firth, who started the whole project in the dying days of the Labor government.

    But Piccoli kept the program, which cost $250,000, despite the fact that there is no evidence that homophobic bullying is a big problem in NSW schools and despite the fact anti-homophobia elements are already incorporated in the existing PDHPE syllabus.

    At least a dozen MPs, from the Coalition, Labor and independents including Fred Nile, have discussed their concerns with Proud Schools in recent weeks.

    One has provided The Daily Telegraph with extensive information about the program obtained under freedom of information or in questions on notice to Piccoli in Parliament.

    From 175 pages of material, including a Proud Schools consultation report produced by the White House Education committee and in minutes of meetings of the Proud Schools Steering Committee, a disturbing picture emerges of a program that appears designed more for indoctrination and propaganda than to eliminate bullying.

    In Victoria a similar program, the "Safe Schools Coalition" to "support sexual diversity" in schools, holds that gender and sexuality are not fixed but fluid concepts. Students are taught not to think about gender and sexuality in a "binary" way, as in male/female or gay/ straight, but as part of a continuum of choices.

    What are pubescent children supposed to make of that? The assumptions which underpin the Proud Schools program seem questionable, at best.

    For one thing, a position paper produced for the project by Latrobe University claims there is "strong evidence in 2011 that approximately one in 10 young people are sexually attracted to people of their own sex, or are unsure".

    It also quotes another figure of "between 7 and 9 per cent" who are same-sex attracted.

    This paints a picture at odds with figures around the world which put homosexuality at 2-3 percent of the population.

    In fact the most comprehensive survey of sexuality in this country was also by LaTrobe University, in its 2003 Sex in Australia report which found 1.6 per cent of Australian men identify as homosexual and 0.9 per cent as bisexual. For women the figures are 0.8 per cent who identified as homosexual and 1.4 per cent as bisexual.

    Another LaTrobe study which informed the Proud Schools consultation report, Writing Themselves 3, found that 80 per cent of homophobic abuse and violence for young people occurs at schools and that "violence and abuse is sustained and embedded in school culture".

    It claims homophobia, "has increased rather than decreased over the past five years and that there are strong and significant links between the experience of homophobic abuse and self harm".

    Yet this is not the experience of the principals quoted in the Proud Schools Consultation report produced by Family Planning NSW.

    "There's not a great deal of overt homophobia" says one.

    "Not many cases of overt discrimination but there is name calling", says another.

    "I haven't had any issues of homophobic violence at this school", says another.

    One principal said: "We have some openly gay male students. Some are embraced but some are bullied. If they're popular they're OK but if they're not they get bullied."

    Another said: We have one obvious transsexual student who doesn't associate well with other students. Not because of his gender but because of other family issues. He does struggle with his identity. He gets sympathy from staff but gets ignored by students." A teacher is quoted in the Proud Schools report saying: "The problem is language rather than overt discrimination. Gay is still used as a derogatory term. What I see is language that is inappropriate, 'That's so gay', etc."

    This teacher's comment, concludes the report, "highlights the way in which some teachers continue to fail to recognise homophobic language as a form of violence and discrimination".

    But the report seems to want to find a big problem with little evidence that one exists.

    Over the past seven years The Daily Telegraph's education reporter Bruce McDougall has been monitoring NSW Education Department safety and security incident reports of violence and other problems at schools. He has not seen one report relating to homophobia.

    Yes, bullying and violence occurs at schools and every effort should be made to prevent it. But it does not primarily relate to sexuality, and false claims that it does could promote a backlash or even send the message that bullying for other reasons is not as bad.

    The report also described as "worryingly simplistic" and "out of line with contemporary ideas of sexuality" the question raised by some teachers and students of whether people are "born that way or exercise choice with respect to same sex attraction or gender diversity".

    The contemporary view, according to the report is: "Spectrums of attraction and complex interactions with the social world influence sexual and gender identity."

    Whatever. It's not up to academics to dictate attitudes to society via indoctrination of captive children in classrooms, and it's irresponsible of politicians to allow them to do so.

    Parents expect their children to go to school to learn basic skills, and become socialised. They expect a safe environment in which everyone is treated with respect and without bullying.

    But they also don't expect that their values should be subverted by homosexual or any other propaganda.

    And they don’t expect that widespread acceptance of heterosexuality as the most common human experience would be demonised.
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