Take the Obama Test

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by SaddleSarge, Sep 20, 2008.

  1. SaddleSarge

    SaddleSarge New Member

    Aug 24, 2008
    Take the Obama Match Test:

    Are You a Match for Obama?

    On the Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama
    (Source: http://www.gunbanobama.com)

    The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.

    But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.

    FACT: Barack Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and he has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or Scalia.17

    FACT: Barack Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate “assault weapons,” but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen.18

    FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

    FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

    FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

    FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

    FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

    FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

    FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5

    FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

    FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

    FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

    FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

    FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

    FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

    FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

    FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

    FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

    FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

    FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

    FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

    FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

    FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

    FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

    1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00219)

    2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)

    3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00217)

    4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-common-se.html)

    5. Illinois Senate, SB 2165, March 25, 2004, vote 20 and May 25, 2004, vote 3.

    6. “Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record.” Obama ’08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/11/fact_check_no_news_in_obamas_c.php)

    7. “Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html)

    8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

    9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)

    10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

    11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

    12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2007/04/clinton_edwards.html)

    13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/barack_obama_comments_on_shoot.html)

    14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urbanpolicy/#crime-and-law-enforcement.)

    15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004.

    16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.

    17. United States Senate vote 245, September 29, 2005 and vote 2, January 31, 2006 and Saddleback Forum, August 16, 2008.

    18. Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee, March 13, 2003. To see the vote tally go to: http://www.nrapvf.org/Media/pdf/sb1195_obama.pdf.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2008
  2. Marlin T

    Marlin T Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2005
    New Mexico
    Thanks for the comprehensive list, good one.

  3. satellite66

    satellite66 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    Central NJ
    I will take it upon myself to post the democratic response to this. RACIST :D
    It seems that this is the new talking point of late. If you say anything unflattering about Obama. Desperation has set in at the DNC.
  4. pawn

    pawn Active Member

    Jan 31, 2007
    Crossville, TN
    +1 SaddleSarge, nice post

    Looking forward to the presidential debates....
  5. artabr

    artabr New Member

    Mar 3, 2008
    New Iberia, Louisiana
    Ditto on both.

  6. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk New Member

    Aug 22, 2006
    South Central Texas
    already blaming racism


    Poll: Racial misgivings of whites an Obama issue

    Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill. answers questions from the media during a news conference following a meeting with his top economic advisers, Friday, Sept. 19, 2008, in Coral Gables, Fla.
    Click to view morePhoto Credit: AP Photo
    Republican presidential candidate, Sen., John McCain, R-Ariz., greets supporters at the conclusion of a campaign rally in Blaine, Minn., Friday afternoon, Sept. 19, 2008.
    Click to view morePhoto Credit: AP Photo
    Patricia Rossi, left, and Christine Chiuminatta, both of Ashburn, Va., cheer as Democratic vice presidential candidate Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del. speaks at a rally for women, Friday, Sept. 19, 2008, in Sterling, Va.
    Click to view more
    Related Assets:

    * Poll: Racial misgivings of whites an Obama issue video
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    By RON FOURNIER and TREVOR TOMPSONAssociated Press Writers
    September 21, 2008 - 2:39 a.m.
    Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks - many calling them "lazy," "violent" or responsible for their own troubles.

    The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 - about 2.5 percentage points.

    Certainly, Republican John McCain has his own obstacles: He's an ally of an unpopular president and would be the nation's oldest first-term president. But Obama faces this: 40 percent of all white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, and that includes many Democrats and independents.

    More than a third of all white Democrats and independents - voters Obama can't win the White House without - agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views.

    Such numbers are a harsh dose of reality in a campaign for the history books. Obama, the first black candidate with a serious shot at the presidency, accepted the Democratic nomination on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, a seminal moment for a nation that enshrined slavery in its Constitution.

    "There are a lot fewer bigots than there were 50 years ago, but that doesn't mean there's only a few bigots," said Stanford political scientist Paul Sniderman who helped analyze the exhaustive survey.

    The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats. President Bush's unpopularity, the Iraq war and a national sense of economic hard times cut against GOP candidates, as does that fact that Democratic voters outnumber Republicans.

    The findings suggest that Obama's problem is close to home - among his fellow Democrats, particularly non-Hispanic white voters. Just seven in 10 people who call themselves Democrats support Obama, compared to the 85 percent of self-identified Republicans who back McCain.

    The survey also focused on the racial attitudes of independent voters because they are likely to decide the election.

    Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president - white, black or brown.

    Not all whites are prejudiced. Indeed, more whites say good things about blacks than say bad things, the poll shows. And many whites who see blacks in a negative light are still willing or even eager to vote for Obama.

    On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.

    Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.

    Three in 10 of those Democrats who don't trust Obama's change-making credentials say they plan to vote for McCain.

    Still, the effects of whites' racial views are apparent in the polling.

    Statistical models derived from the poll suggest that Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice.

    But in an election without precedent, it's hard to know if such models take into account all the possible factors at play.

    The AP-Yahoo poll used the unique methodology of Knowledge Networks, a Menlo Park, Calif., firm that interviews people online after randomly selecting and screening them over telephone. Numerous studies have shown that people are more likely to report embarrassing behavior and unpopular opinions when answering questions on a computer rather than talking to a stranger.

    Other techniques used in the poll included recording people's responses to black or white faces flashed on a computer screen, asking participants to rate how well certain adjectives apply to blacks, measuring whether people believe blacks' troubles are their own fault, and simply asking people how much they like or dislike blacks.

    "We still don't like black people," said John Clouse, 57, reflecting the sentiments of his pals gathered at a coffee shop in Somerset, Ohio.

    Given a choice of several positive and negative adjectives that might describe blacks, 20 percent of all whites said the word "violent" strongly applied. Among other words, 22 percent agreed with "boastful," 29 percent "complaining," 13 percent "lazy" and 11 percent "irresponsible." When asked about positive adjectives, whites were more likely to stay on the fence than give a strongly positive assessment.

    Among white Democrats, one-third cited a negative adjective and, of those, 58 percent said they planned to back Obama.

    The poll sought to measure latent prejudices among whites by asking about factors contributing to the state of black America. One finding: More than a quarter of white Democrats agree that "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites."

    Those who agreed with that statement were much less likely to back Obama than those who didn't.

    Among white independents, racial stereotyping is not uncommon. For example, while about 20 percent of independent voters called blacks "intelligent" or "smart," more than one third latched on the adjective "complaining" and 24 percent said blacks were "violent."

    Nearly four in 10 white independents agreed that blacks would be better off if they "try harder."

    The survey broke ground by incorporating images of black and white faces to measure implicit racial attitudes, or prejudices that are so deeply rooted that people may not realize they have them. That test suggested the incidence of racial prejudice is even higher, with more than half of whites revealing more negative feelings toward blacks than whites.

    Researchers used mathematical modeling to sort out the relative impact of a huge swath of variables that might have an impact on people's votes - including race, ideology, party identification, the hunger for change and the sentiments of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's backers.

    Just 59 percent of her white Democratic supporters said they wanted Obama to be president. Nearly 17 percent of Clinton's white backers plan to vote for McCain.

    Among white Democrats, Clinton supporters were nearly twice as likely as Obama backers to say at least one negative adjective described blacks well, a finding that suggests many of her supporters in the primaries - particularly whites with high school education or less - were motivated in part by racial attitudes.

    The survey of 2,227 adults was conducted Aug. 27 to Sept. 5. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points.
  7. Prizefighter

    Prizefighter New Member

    Mar 16, 2007
    North Carolina
    I don't approve of racism, and I think any person should have the opportunity to excel without being limited by their background.

    Having said that, let me also say this. Listening to the statements made by black icons in popular culture (i.e. rappers) and taking them at their word does not make one a bigot. Furthermore, if those adjectives actually apply to you - no matter what race you are - you can't get upset when someone uses them to describe you.

    Racism is not just a white problem, and whites aren't the only ones with a lot of work to do if race relations are to improve.

    As for Obama, I think "boastful" probably applies, though you have to be boastful if you're running a presidential campaign. The rest really do not. What's more, if he were put down into a social situation without all his celebrity, I imagine there are many blacks who would accuse him of "acting white."
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2008
  8. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

    Feb 17, 2005
    South Carolina
    Now, I'm definitely no racist but can see entirely how this applies. Listen to popular rap music for 30 minutes and you'll quickly see the stereotypes of 'violent', 'boastful', 'complaining', 'lazy' and 'irresponsible'... Heck, these guys are laying it out on the line and then complaining that people stereotype the whole culture based on their boastful outlook in music... Well, there's a reason; the culture accepts it... The whole culture needs to turn inward to attack 'irresponsibility' in their music and leadership. Bill Cosby was a noble man for attacking the issues in a forthright manner but more people need to buy in...

    Now, as for Barack, I do believe that he has an affinity for gun control because he doesn't want to blame part of his race for the violence that they have brought upon themselves. With that said, his ethnicity is not even a small reason why I do not support him. I simply believe he's a moron for his economic and social stance on our nation's policies. Yes, they're reaching pretty low to pull the race card in this election... It's sad... :(
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2008
  9. Prizefighter

    Prizefighter New Member

    Mar 16, 2007
    North Carolina
    This whole issue makes me wonder... does affirmative action apply to the presidency? :rolleyes:

    The truth is I'm tired of hearing about it all, really. Tired of Bush jokes, tired of election "news," why I'm just about to the point where I'm ready to hear about Britney Spears and Paris Hilton on the news again. Let's just have the election already.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2008
  10. SaddleSarge

    SaddleSarge New Member

    Aug 24, 2008
    The American People's should not be drawn into (no matter which party or belief) the issue of one's racial background. It is immaterial by either side (positive or negative) that imposes the thought. The issue here within this discussion are the ideals of the foundation of this system of government and the beliefs held by any candidate.

    Our power is in the ballot, as it was concieved and as it should be within the parameters of those foundations and boundaries. God forbid that should change.

    Ben Franklin said it best by his words to Representative John Dickensen (paraphrasing) that these are dangerous times and to be careful, that those that would give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

    Yes, there are many issues, but, many of those issues are devoid of facts beyond this system that is held in higher reverance by those attempting to achieve it and/or those that are in want of it. Higher possibly than those that are in possession of it.

    Those that would cloud the facts with issues of a racial overtone (no matter their stance) are guilty of discrediting the foundation of this system of government, and no matter their heritage or their professed belief within that system.

    Does history repeat itself for those that are unwilling to learn from the past? Only history may judge us for the maintenance of how we have (collectively) dealt that responsibility.

    However, question all. No matter their (candidates) professed stance, question them, investigate, show the facts to others, and decide. Emotion seems to run rampant while educated voters appear to take second seat.

    Let us strive to make the later, the former. Facts are facts and there are no emotions in the truth.

    (Edit: As you may tell, as soon as the news, politician, etc... bring up white, black, brown, red, yellow, purple, whatever...I believe it is merely a crutch and is devoid of any personal responsibility. For without it, there is no issue. Like the bumper sticker says, "Annoy a Liberal, work hard and be happy." McCain nailed it when he said that we are a county of whiners. For without the crutch, many facets (pardon the pun) wouldn't have a leg to stand on.) ;)
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2008
  11. Very well said, Sarge, and true beyond question. The color of an individual's skin or his or her internal plumbing arrangements have no bearing whatever on the issues which should concern us, and for that matter, neither does political party affiliation. What does matter are the principles that candidate stands for, and will fight for, as a policy maker in this nation's government. The basic question before us in this election is actually a simple one: Should the United States of America remain a nation based upon the rights and the responsibilities of the individual citizen, or should we become a nation in which those rights and responsibilities are abrogated and ignored in favor of an all-encompassing, all-controlling central government? Put another way, should we listen to the Siren song of Karl Marx, or the wisdom of Thomas Jefferson?

    I, for one, shall choose the latter!
  12. mrkirker

    mrkirker New Member

    Jul 13, 2007
    "The truth is I'm tired of hearing about it all, really. Tired of Bush jokes, tired of election "news," why I'm just about to the point where I'm ready to hear about Britney Spears and Paris Hilton on the news again. Let's just have the election already."

    Ditto, P-fighter! I'd much rather look at Ms. Spears (with the sound turned off, of course) than either one of the candidates. I feel that anything of worth that was going to be said, HAS been said, at this point: The remainer is posturing, and re-yammering.

    It was no accident that I scheduled my vacation into the back country this fall to begin two weeks before, and end ON Election day. ;)

    No phones, faxes, newspapers, and the truck radio stays 'OFF'! :D

  13. Smart move! :D;)
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