The UN really sucks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1952Sniper, Mar 7, 2003.

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  1. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

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    teehee1
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    (1/21/03 12:35:31 pm)
    Reply
    The UN really sucks
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    See article under Fire For Effect
    "Life is not:easy, fair or cheap... sometimes bad things happen to good people"


    daavros
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    Posts: 7
    (1/22/03 12:06:16 pm)
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    Re: The UN really sucks
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    It only sucks because it is an obstacle which is stopping the US from launching an attack on Iraq.

    I do believe during the Cuban Missile Crisis the UN actually helped avert a nuclear war.

    Politics and Current Affairs


    Chas
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    (1/22/03 3:22:19 pm)
    Reply cuba
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    UN or no UN...it was the threat of nuclear war that averted a nuclear war. So in over 40 years I guess we can credit the UN with at least one smoke and mirrors contribution.

    From the beginning of time until that last great day (except for the Babel experiment) "United Nations" will be an oxymoron.

    Chuck


    daavros
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    (1/22/03 4:16:51 pm)
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    Re: cuba
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    The UN does offer a considerable amount of peace and stability to the world. The world would be a more dangerous place without it.

    Politics and Current Affairs


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
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    (1/22/03 5:49:50 pm)
    Reply Re: cuba
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    I would counter that with how come they can't control Sadamn Insane, and the crazy NK dude.

    For that matter, how come they can't keep things stable in the middle east and Eroupean countries. Seems like someone is always killing the other guy because they don't like his religion or politics.

    Didn't see them doing any good in Afghanistan all these past decades of misery and unrest.

    Somalia comes to mind, people dying from hunger, war lords kicking butt and the UN didn't do diddly...but we did...even though it was not handled well.

    Dang, I told myself don't get involved in these UN debates, forget what I just said.

    Gunguy


    Shizamus
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    (1/22/03 5:55:33 pm)
    Reply Re: cuba
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    A slip of the keyboard ?

    PERCEPTION IS REALITY !

    www.gcnlive.com


    1952Sniper
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    (1/23/03 8:54:03 am)
    Reply | Edit Re: cuba
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    Anybody who knows me is aware that I don't like the UN.

    But.....

    There is a need for some central organization where countries with disputes can come together to hash things out without going to war. This organization should also provide for common defense of member countries, and protect the economic interests of those countries. Oddly enough, this was the original intent of our Federal government. Look at the Constitution, and the various commentaries like the Federalist Papers.

    I fear that one day the UN will become the "one-world government" that is just as intrusive and power-hungry as our own Federal government has become.

    Does the UN suck? Yes it does. But does it fulfill a necessary role in worldwide stability? Yes. We don't need to disassemble the UN, we just need to give it the right direction and control its power. We need to revamp the UN, just like we need to revamp the Federal government, to restore the original intent of their existence.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    Shizamus
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    (1/23/03 9:19:58 am)
    Reply Re: cuba
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    Revamp the UN.. never happen.
    Get the UN out of the US.

    Check out these stories about UN & Sex :
    www.prisonplanet.com/archives_un_prostitution.html

    PERCEPTION IS REALITY !

    www.gcnlive.com

    Edited by: Shizamus at: 1/23/03 9:59:06 am


    daavros
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    (1/24/03 6:44:02 am)
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    Re: cuba
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    So if the UN is done away with, what happens to International Law, do you advocate a replacement to the UN? If not where does that leave International Law??

    Daav

    Politics and Current Affairs


    AGunguy
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    Posts: 3185
    (1/24/03 10:22:21 am)
    Reply Re: cuba
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    I believe the league of nations was founded by President Wilson after WW-1, that fell on its butt too. The nations could not make a go of it in unity and corporation so it fell apart.

    The UN will undoubtedly eventually go the same way.

    Prior to WW-1, Teddy Roosevelt world diplomacy was to speak softly and carry a big stick.

    Send in the outerspace mechanical men, Daleks...EXTERMINATE, EXTERMINATE!

    The USA carries a big stick much to the chagrin of the cowardly jealous 2nd rate nations that shoot off their mouths in the UN against our foreign policy of dealing with tyrants.

    GG

    Edited by: AGunguy at: 1/24/03 12:20:54 pm


    dksdks
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    Posts: 33
    (1/24/03 11:19:40 am)
    Reply Alternative
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    So the UN is imperfect but whats the alternative??

    USA doing what it feels like everywhere seems to be the only option if the UN was disolved.

    Then maybe we decide we dont like the way laws work so we abolsh all laws and everybody can do what they feel like.

    The UN needs more support in its actions from the major players, who rule the UN anyway,(remember who were the first people to get the 'confidencial' UN inspectors report on iraqi arms before the UN council got it?) if its going to improve.

    How can the UN scare Sadam when nobody powerfull supports or, even more importantly, is scared/respects of the UN.

    Will anybody worry about the laws if all the government officials seemed to break them without any consequences?


    AGunguy
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    (1/24/03 12:39:48 pm)
    Reply Re: Alternative
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    The world by now should realize the USA is not out to conquer and subjugate other nations that are peaceful and democratic in democracy.

    It is only concerned with the tyrants of the world that want to destroy other nations they can consume to enhance their power and might.

    Lets take a look at history ever since WW-1 up to present time. Have we added one nation to our so called super power empire. That because we don't operate under an empire system like brits did in controlling other nations at one time.

    Now, what other regime has overthrown other nations and put their boots on the peoples neck by tyrannical force...get the picture. We look historically a lot more fair than some of that far east or Euro trash.

    As for Sadly Insane, he wars with Iran, then tries to take over Kuwait, (sorry if misspelled) don't you think the tyrant needs to have his power stripped from him.

    Gunguy


    daavros
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    (1/24/03 1:19:50 pm)
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    Re: Alternative
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    I think the world will be a worse place without a body such as the UN in place.

    Politics and Current Affairs


    1952Sniper
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    (1/24/03 1:21:27 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: Alternative
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    GG, unfortunately I think we Americans are sadly mistaken about what our government has done to other countries. It may be true that we do not gobble up sovereign nations or "colonize" them like the Brits, but we meddle way beyond reason. We use our economic strength to force other nations to bend to our will. Our "nation-building" strategy has backfired. Instead of helping to develop third-world countries into blossoming democracies, we effectively keep our bootheel on their necks and prevent them from exercising free choice.

    I'm not saying America is evil or any of that liberal nonsense. I'm just saying that we Americans tend to sit on our couches and be spoon-fed the information that the media wants us to see. We are not getting the full picture. Our intentions may be good, deep down, but our actions do not always have good results. There is a huge gap between the way we perceive ourselves and the way the rest of the world perceives us.

    Our role in the United Nations is making it worse. When the UN steps in and takes action, it is usually led by US troops. And so the rest of the world sees the UN as our puppet. When in reality, we are becoming more of a puppet to the UN.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    daavros
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    (1/24/03 2:21:03 pm)
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    Re: Alternative
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    1952,

    That's was very well put. I'm inclined to agree with everything you have said.

    Daav

    Politics and Current Affairs


    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/24/03 2:27:00 pm)
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    Re: Alternative
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    And I'll add...
    that the information highway has alot to do with a better Global understanding


    AGunguy
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    Posts: 3188
    (1/24/03 3:00:00 pm)
    Reply Re: Alternative
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    I see your point, folks. The USA is not perfect, we are a lot of times at fault in world affairs, and at different times our illustrious secret covert operation agencies have screwed up big time...as well as our nation's political world association process.

    But the fact remains, regardless of spoon fed BS by media and government political agencies we are really the only country that has a decent track record in world affairs of trying to make this planet a little safer for all to live on.

    It is disgusting to have to put up with the anti USA rhetoric continually ongoing from jealous 2nd rate countries who not done anything to promote world peace, political democracy global stabilization.

    Do we have to bring up Somalia again, Afghanistan etc.

    Who else on this planet gives a damn about starving 3rd and 4th world countries run by warlords and tyrannical wackoes.

    While we were kicking butt in Taliban country, we were concerned about keeping the helpless citizenry feed and sheltered, we air dropped supplies. Any other Euro nation do this kind of act from the UN?

    Gunguy


    Chas
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    (1/24/03 3:04:52 pm)
    Reply UN
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    The United Nations is no less a "nation builder" (or wanabe) than the US and has created enough problems on its own. Do I think the idea of a UN is a good one...yes. Am I confident that it can achieve it's stated goals...probably not. Until it solves the Palestinian/Israeli situation...a situation the League of Nations undertook in 1922 and the UN joined in May 1948 when it declared Israel a state and subsequently set adrift...I'll have little hope for the UN apart from being a "feel good" group of muckity mucks. (sorry for the long sentence).

    As far as the UN & international law goes...I only have one word...Rwanda

    Personally, I long for the good old days of treaties, agreements, and covenants among those who wish to interact with one another (otherwise known as the free market).

    The UN has not proven itself to be a problem solver between nations. On occasion it has helped keep the peace...so how long have we been in Bosnia without a solution??

    chuck

    Edited by: Chas at: 1/24/03 3:22:11 pm


    dksdks
    Member
    Posts: 34
    (1/24/03 3:15:48 pm)
    Reply question:
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    Apart from the UK (the government mainly) , how many other countries in the world would be considered as pro american?

    How many would say that the US has done more good thing than bad things to the world?

    Its lonelier that people think...


    1952Sniper
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    (1/24/03 3:33:30 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: question:
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    Quote:
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    But the fact remains, regardless of spoon fed BS by media and government political agencies we are really the only country that has a decent track record in world affairs of trying to make this planet a little safer for all to live on.
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    I agree 100%. But like Shizamus is so fond of saying, perception is reality. We can perform 1,000 kind acts to help out 3rd world countries. But it's the one single screw-up that people will remember. IMHO most of the world is a bunch of thankless SOBs who constantly hold their hand out for freebies from the US. But when we give them food and aid, then ask for something in return, they get all offended and call us tyrants. Sometimes we do deserve that title, and sometimes we don't. It all depends on the particular situation. But the world needs to wake up and realize that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

    So what's my point? I think that the US needs to pay more attention to how we handle certain situations and the perceptions that go along with our actions. But by the same token, the rest of the world needs to stop listening to the anti-American propaganda that people like Osama bin Laden keep spouting, and look at our track record.

    Hopefully we can meet somewhere in the middle and all be happy. Without the UN.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    Chas
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    (1/24/03 3:46:35 pm)
    Reply Re: question:
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    What countries say in public and what happens in private are two different worlds...many if not all of the countries that bad mouth the US have at one time or another benefited greatly from our green backs, our golden grain, and/or our spilt red blood. With few exceptions we have even rebuilt our enemies cities. What nations (like North Korea) have learned is that the squeeky wheel gets the grease. The US is the greatest cash cow the world has ever known (and we tend to think that freedom is a pretty good deal too). They may hate us but they love our money, our CD's and movies and especially our Levi's...and when the chips are down they love our Armed Forces.

    chuck


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3189
    (1/24/03 7:08:50 pm)
    Reply Re: question:
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    Ain't it the truth, I love it when perception's light bulb brightens.

    Good on ya, folks.

    The world will never love us, why, because we are unique...we are the USA...but that uniqueness is getting fraigle.

    May God bless the USA and its citizens inspite of our deviant politicians, but that He remembers our brave citizens that gave their all to maintain are status of freedom and liberty such as it is.

    Gunguy

    Edited by: AGunguy at: 1/25/03 6:04:47 pm
     
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