T'Hell in a Handbasket?

Discussion in 'VMBB Fire For Effect' started by Guest, Mar 4, 2003.

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    dap22
    Moderator
    Posts: 222
    (3/25/01 5:44:31 pm)
    | Del All T'Hell in a Handbasket?
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    T’Hell in a Handbasket?

    Got to thinking about the state of affairs today. My uncle, a retired 0-6, sent me an article in the Washington Times which spoke of the high attrition rate that all services are finding with recruits going through “basic training”. It seems that the physical standards are more than a whole bunch of these youngsters can tolerate. What to think?
    Two of my sons are teachers and coaches, one coaches at the high school varsity level, the other used to coach at the varsity level but gave it up to join the corporate world. To hear them talk, about how today’s kids just don’t have the desire and will to compete as kids did a decade or two ago, makes me wonder. What to think?
    Went to a surprise birthday party a week ago and spoke with a couple of the Army’s newest aviators. Both told me about the flight school program and how it had drastically changed since I was an instructor in the same school some thirty years ago. Believe me, the changes are NOT for the better. What to think?
    Today’s kids are taking a watered down version of the SAT exam. Why’d we have to change it? Diversity? What to think?
    It seems to me that with improved nutrition and improved information through extensive computer use, our kids at least ought to be more able to be physically fit and certainly more knowledgeable than we were as kids. What’s gone wrong? My kid who still teaches told me that the school is being subjected to tremendous pressure from parent’s groups to eliminate physical education……..wow.
    I know there’s a silver lining in the cloud somewhere. Please tell me where.
    Dave


    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 381
    (3/25/01 8:58:30 pm)
    | Del Re: T'Hell in a Handbasket?
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    Dave,

    What worries me is what the hell would we do if
    we had to go to war and we couldn't meet the challenge?

    JD
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    dap22
    Moderator
    Posts: 223
    (3/25/01 9:38:29 pm)
    | Del Re: T'Hell in a Handbasket?
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    Read my post over and it sounds pretty sour grapes...I don't mean to sound that way because I'm generally pretty optomistic....and I really like kids and realize that they're the future. I think our present generation leaders need to readdress some priorities.....sorry about sounding like sour grapes...
    JD....I agree completely.
    Dave

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 383
    (3/25/01 11:45:01 pm)
    | Del Re: T'Hell in a Handbasket?
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    I don't think it was sour grapes at all, I think
    your right on target.

    JD
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    homer4
    Registered User
    Posts: 134
    (3/26/01 9:10:12 am)
    | Del Re: T'Hell in a Handbasket?
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    I think so too fellas.Any time standards are lowered to accomodate for any reason...the program,field,area,etc. is going to suffer and consequently be lowered.No one benefits...not even the supposed benefactors that the change was made for.

    I worry about our kids and grandkids future also.
    ...and two hard boiled eggs.

    gene29223
    Moderator
    Posts: 46
    (3/26/01 10:15:23 am)
    | Del Re: T'Hell in a Handbasket?
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    Right On. Like I said somewhere here before, I work with these new recruits on a daily basis. We keep lowering the bar so they can squeak under it.

    Wonder what happened to President Kennedy's school fitness program? Well, no, I know what happened to it. It costs $$$$ and the schools have opted to put the money elsewhere. Here in SC, kids have a half semester of PE which they knock out in the 9th Grade, most of which they don't have to "suit out" for. Then NONE, nada, nothing. The most exercise might be Friday/Saturday night dances. So many can't do three sit-ups, two push ups or make a mile in under 10 minutes when they enlist.

    Where are we heading with all this? Worries me too!

    Take care Gene

    Edited by: gene29223 at: 3/26/01 11:02:23 am

    Indybear57
    Moderator
    Posts: 139
    (3/26/01 10:49:35 am)
    | Del Re: T'Hell in a Handbasket?
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    Talking about watered down SAT tests hit a sore spot with me. It all goes back to the bullshit about not hurting a kids self esteem instead of making him/her toe the line. We can't fail little Johnny because then he won't feel a part of the group and may not like himself. Sorry folks, kids will work up (or down) to whatever standard you give them. If you don't expect much from them the you're not going to get much from them. Part of this is also the "affirmative action" movement. If the "correct" percentage of (fill in your own minority here) can't pass the requirements set forth the we have to change the requirements so that they can pass and we meet our quota. All bleeding heart liberal bullshit in my book.

    Sez me (for what it's worth)

    Mike L

    Remf
    Moderator
    Posts: 114
    (3/26/01 12:21:33 pm)
    | Del Re: T'Hell in a Handbasket?
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    Ask a few newly graduated young people what state borders there own. I think you'll find most don't know. Geography has been out for a while now. But we won't have to worry about them running to Canada the next time we need them, They won't know where it is. There's always a silver lining, you just have to look hard. And then there's reading........

    dap22
    Moderator
    Posts: 224
    (3/26/01 1:14:03 pm)
    | Del Re: T'Hell in a Handbasket?
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    Subject: Actual answers to SAT testing in
    Chattanooga, Tennessee!

    Q: Name the four seasons.
    A: Salt, pepper, mustard and vinegar.

    Q: Explain one of the processes by which
    water can be made safe
    todrink.
    A: Flirtation makes water safe to drink
    because it
    removes large pollutants like grit, sand, dead
    sheep and canoeists.

    Q: How is dew formed?
    A: The sun shines down on the leaves and makes
    them perspire.

    Q: What is a planet?
    A: A body of earth surrounded by sky.

    Q: What causes the tides in the oceans?
    A: The tides are a fight between the Earth and
    the Moon. All
    water tends to flow towards the moon, because there
    is no water on the
    moon and nature abhors a vacuum. I forget where the
    sun joins in this
    fight.

    Q: What guarantees may a mortgage company
    insist on?
    A: If you are buying a house, they will insist
    you are well endowed.

    Q: In a democratic society, how important are
    elections?
    A: Very important. Sex can only happen when a
    male gets an
    election.

    Q: What are steroids?
    A: Things for keeping carpets still on the
    stairs.

    Q: What happens to your body as you age?
    A: When you get old, so do your bowels and you
    get
    intercontinental.

    Q: What happens to a boy when he reaches
    puberty?
    A: He says good-bye to his boyhood and looks
    forward to his
    adultery.

    Q: Name a major disease associated with
    cigarettes.
    A: Premature death.

    Q: What is artificial insemination?
    A: When the farmer does it to the bull instead
    of the cow.

    Q: How can you delay milk turning sour?
    A: Keep it in the cow.

    Q: How are the main parts of the body
    categorized? (e.g.abdomen.)
    A: The body is consisted into three parts - the
    brainium, the
    borax and and the abdominal cavity. The brainium
    contains the brain,
    the borax contains the heart and lungs, and the
    abdominal cavity contains
    the five bowels, A, E, I, O and U.

    Q: What is the Fibula?
    A: A small lie.

    Q: What does "varicose" mean?
    A: Nearby.

    Q: What is the most common form of birth
    control?
    A: Most people prevent contraception by wearing
    a condominium.

    Q: Give the meaning of the term "Caesarian
    Section."
    A: The caesarian section is a district in Rome.

    Q: What is a seizure?
    A: A Roman emperor.

    Q: What is a terminal illness?
    A: When you are sick at the airport


    donbrails
    Registered User
    Posts: 21
    (3/26/01 8:44:21 pm)
    | Del handbasket
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    Just some random thoughts.
    These are kind of off the top of my head.
    It is difficult to educate a student in a school with over 2,000 students. A lot of individuals get lost in the shuffle. Give me a school with 500 students, that you see in the hall everyday,and you can at least say "Good morning" to. At least you can make them feel like a real person. Their mother or father never talk to them because the student lives in Nevada and his father lives in Kentucky and his mother lives with God knows who.
    Quit taking our money to give to voucher programs like they do in Wisconsin. Our small district lost $45,000 this school year because it is being used to fund the voucher program in Milwaukee. Eau Claire Memorial lost over $230,000. Make the private schools be accountable for their programs like the public schools are. We have to meet standards: the private schools don't.
    We are forced to take students no matter what their situation. We have one aide that follows one student all day long because as soon as your back is turned he will start a physical fight. This kid doesn't belong in school he belongs in a juvenile facility. This is costing the district $17,000 a year.
    Don't expect us to take valuable class time to teach morals in one classroom and birth control in another. Values begin at home, we are not the parents of these children.
    Don't blame everything on the public schools and "overpaid" teachers. We are not miracle workers!
    We did not create the situation this country is in. Again values and morals start in the home and we can only reinforce them. If there is nothing to reinforce where do you turn.
    Turn off the damn TV and the video games and start talking to your kids and grandkids. Make it known that they are unique and wonderful individuals but are still responsible for their own actions.
    I make it a point to remember each student in my class on their birthday. One girl cried when I gave her a card and a small bag of candy because it was the only card she received from anyone on her birthday.
    I'm sorry I rambled on but sooner or later everyone is going to have to jump into this fray and do their part.
    Thanks,
    Don

    oneknight
    Moderator
    Posts: 386
    (3/26/01 9:29:02 pm)
    | Del Re: handbasket
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    Good post Don. I agree with you. Truer words were never
    spoken, "we are a product of our environment".


    Donna

    Indybear57
    Moderator
    Posts: 141
    (3/27/01 10:00:31 am)
    | Del Re: handbasket
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    Don-Good post and points well made. It's unfortunate that we can't legislate good parenting because that is, indeed, were it all starts. I agree with you that schools shouldn't have to teach morality, but on the other side of that coin if the parents don't do it and the schools don't do it, then who does that leave? I grew up knowing the difference between right and wrong and I knew better than to get in trouble in school because regardless of what the school did what happened after I got home would be ten time worse. Too many kids today have been raised in an extremely liberal environment with little or no concept of responsibility for their actions. We see this every day. It's not the fault of the child, he comes from a broken home, lives in poverty, etc. These are not reasons, they're excuses. We ALL have the ability to rise above whatever hurdles are placed before us. A child must learn from an early age that for everything they do there is a reaction. If the do right they must receive praise. If they do wrong they must receive punishment. It's just that simple. I don't know how it is in Wisc., but in Indiana I don't think that teachers are allowed to use corporal punishment anymore. Bad move in my book. One of the things that kept us in line when I was in school was the knowledge that if we screwed up then we'd get our asses whopped. I know that there's a school of thought that says you should never strike a child, but I don't buy it. I got my fair share and it didn't warp me and it kept me pretty much in line. You mention school voucher programs. This too I see as a bad call. Take the money you're going to put into vouchers and use it to make the public schools work. Pubilc education worked well in this country for over one hundred years and can do so again if we're all willing to do the work that it takes to make it work.

    Whew! Guess I'd better get off my soapbox, I'm getting dizzy!

    Mike L

    homer4
    Registered User
    Posts: 144
    (3/27/01 11:03:33 am)
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    Don...While ageeing with the bulk of your post whole heartedly,I disagree somewhat with the knock on the voucher program.

    I don't find fault with parents seeking to recover a portion of monies that they have put out since they too are tax payers that have opted for a system that for the most part is more wholesome based,and much more in tune with their chosen value system.There is less indignant behaviors from students due to standards that are much,much higher than the public school system.Standards that the public systems have gotten away from long ago concerning discipline,the 3 R's,study habits which eventually become work habits and such.Private schools consistently out score the public schools by a wide margin.

    All of which you touched on Don.I'm not saying that we should trash the public school system,but it needs to be overhauled...the clincher in this is that you want to find fault with money bud.We've poured kazillions of dollars in the system Don and it is infinitely worse and this continues thru to the college level as well.When moral and character molding is failed to be taught in our schools...the end result is our present society and a society that is rapidly falling apart.

    The absolute main failure is POOR PARENTING,yet there are tons and tons of parents crying foul from the TV and Hellyweird,the music,the advertising industry,and a public school system that has our kids for 6hrs a day and must assume it's share in the complaint.A system that does seem to support homosexuality,abortion,birth control,condom distribution,anti-gun measures,and on and on.They definitely sit in the liberal Democratic camp as a whole.

    We have several close friends that are teachers in the public schools Don and equally frustrated over it's demise,but they realize the answer isn't more dollars or the taking away of the dollars from voucher users. There isn't a voucher program in Maryland as of yet.It has been to the Legislature before and repeatedly shouted down by the Democraticly controlled Legislature,the Democraticaly controlled press and the Democratically controlled Teachers Association and Union here.

    If it was some how to be passed one day however,and if the voucher allows for the government to have any say in the academic curriculum,the deliberant intent to teach moral and character developement and the leverage to discipline that teaches responcebilty and concequence...forget it.Let's all continue to absorb the costs.There are absolutes that HAVE to be taught in our schools as well as at home.Sorry for the ramble Don and all with out offence.

    I'm a registered Independant with a blue collar pocketbook.This is not to say that parents who don't opt for private schools are any less good and moral parents and not seeking the best for their kids.Not in the least...we all make choices,we made one and some made another,that's all.

    ...and two hard boiled eggs.

    Edited by: homer4 at: 3/27/01 11:12:29 am

    Indybear57
    Moderator
    Posts: 142
    (3/27/01 12:46:39 pm)
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    A buddy of mine forwarded this to me and it kinda fits since we're talkin' (or talkin' around) a bit of politics here.

    Its All About the Money

    A Republican and a Democrat were walking down the street when they came upon a homeless person. The Republican gave the homeless person his business card and told him to come to his business for a job. He then took twenty dollars out of his pocket and gave it to the homeless person.

    The Democrat was very impressed, and when they came to another homeless person, he decided to help. He walked over to the homeless person and gave him directions to the welfare office. He then reached into the Republican's pocket and gave the homeless person fifty dollars.

    It took me years to figure out the real differences between Democrats and Republicans and this little story says it all.



    Rons Toys
    Registered User
    Posts: 4
    (3/27/01 3:43:14 pm)
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    Here is a little article on the subject.
    Ron
    link to full article:
    www.lewrockwell.com/decos...ter22.html

    Public education is based on the idea that government is the "parent" best
    equipped to provide children with the values and wisdom required
    to grow into an intelligent, functional adult. To reiterate what
    former first lady Hillary Clinton professed, these public school
    champions believe "it takes a village?."

    It doesn?t take a village to raise and educate children. It takes a family, a
    church, interested third parties such as friends and neighbors, or quality
    private educational institutions that flourish under a capitalistic system and
    respond to the paying parent-consumers.

    Modern-day education has built on the foundation set forth by these
    tyrants. What is most disquieting about the public education mindset is that
    those who believe most strongly in it are convinced that there are no other
    noble alternatives, and that the alternatives that do exist are merely a
    hindrance to the only real education, that which is provided via the public
    domain. The egalitarian core belief of these educators is that society is
    responsible for obtaining, maintaining, and paying for the process of
    equally developing young minds.

    But since the laws of the modern state that control the educational system
    lean toward equality, that means a bias against the smart and hardworking.
    This takes education to the level of heavy egalitarian leanings, sustaining
    the philosophy that schools have the obligation to treat all students as pure
    equals - equal in intelligence, work ethic, performance, and desire.

    It?s high time that the public resist the inherent
    dangers of continuing on a path toward a more
    socialized, bureaucratic, and just plain immoral
    taxpayer-funded public school system. Taxpayers
    need to reject the public education nipple and look
    toward the same market they covet for their goods
    and services - the free market.

    February 15, 2001

    Karen De Coster is a politically incorrect CPA, and
    an MA student in economics at Walsh College in
    Michigan.