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This was an interesting discovery...

2K views 25 replies 9 participants last post by  RCC 
#1 ·

...for me so I thought I'd pass this along:

I've been doing a lot or reloading in my Arizona garage since the weather has cooled off, some rifle but mostly handgun on my LNL AP. I've had everything dialed in nicely for some time now, press is running smooth as silk and ammo has been very consistent and precise. On my progressive I check about 5 - 10% of my rounds for accurate powder throw, mic for correct C.O.L., and drop them in my Wilson Case Gauge.

When loading 45 ACP the other night, I had a failure when I dropped a round in my Wilson gauge. That was very odd, I've never had a failure when plunking in my gauge before. I'm set for a 1.250 C.O.L., and .471 crimp. As I examined the round I noticed a slight bulge in the brass at the base of the bullet. At the mouth of the brass it measured .471, where the bulge was it measured more. The C.O.L. was correct and the bullet appeared to be seated squarely (BTW I do seat and crimp separately). I pulled the bullet and the Hornady FMJ RN measured a correct .451 in several places. Okay, so bullet is good, and crimp and COL were good. I'm thinking there must be a bulge in the brass-maybe something like those 40 cal "Glocked" cases. I ran the brass back through my die then dropped the case (no bullet seated) into my Wilson gauge--it plunked perfectly. So I seated the same bullet in that case and again it failed my Wilson plunk test again.

Still not clear what the problems is, I ran every round from my batch of 100 through my Wilson gauge and found 3 more rounds that failed the test. All four of these were Federal cases. I should mention that I drag a wide red sharpie across the head of my rounds before I shoot them so I can more easily recover them when I'm at my indoor range. These 4 cases that failed did not have any red residual on them. I have hundreds of other Federal cases that still have some red on the case head. So it is safe to say that these four failed cases were someone elses brass that I had picked up.

Even though I do not know the specific root cause of these failed cases, I was able to segregate them and assume that they were defective, worn out, or damaged by some other reloader or their gun. With this little experience I now run every single round through my Wilson gauge and If I find a failure, one that is subtle, I'll mark it so I can evaluate it at the range. Also this is causing me to rethink shooting others' "once fired brass."

And finally, this has given me great optimism for a few FTFs on my still new 1911. After my "Kimber" break in of 300 factory rounds, I've gotten a few here and there FTF. This weekend, my 1911 ran just perfect with my 100% passed Wilson Case gauge inspected rounds.

I have gauges for all my calibers, these are some of the best tools I've purchased.

 
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#2 ·
RCC:

Since the failures were all one head stamp did you size some of them and check the case length? If it is too long the action of crimping may bulge the case. Just for reference in 30+ years of reloading I have not ever seen the cases bulge as you describe. I also never check case length on straight wall cases after sizing. But If I found the bulge you described I would certainly check all those case with that head stamp.

Was this range pickup brass? I will repeat for those that haven't heard it before, don't pick up brass at the range unless you observed the shooter take new commercial ammo out of new boxes and leave the brass behind. Some of the brass on the floor was discarded because it had a problem (which is it?).

Also it pays to only use named brand brass for reloading. Foreign brass from dubious places may be of dubious quality. Good name brands for brass are: Remington, Winchester, Federal, Starline, Norma. Others may or may not be good brass (???). It certainly is more fun reloading when you don't encounter problems attributed to bad or out of spec. components! That is especially true when progressively reloading, as my experience has shown me.

LDBennett
 
#3 ·
RCC:
Since the failures were all one head stamp did you size some of them and check the case length?
I resized them all. It did not even occur to me to check the length. Dang, that would have been good to have done. Lesson learned.

Was this range pickup brass?
Yes, range pick up. I buy new brass for my revolver because I can recover 100% it. I have not done that with my autos pistols because I lose some into other lanes.

Also it pays to only use named brand brass for reloading. Foreign brass from dubious places may be of dubious quality. Good name brands for brass are: Remington, Winchester, Federal, Starline, Norma.
I've decided to bite the bullet. I've already added 1000 pcs to my Starline cart.

Thanks for your feedback, it's always appreciated!
 
#4 ·
It sounds like that could be a wall thickness problem. If the walls have thinned out enough or were too thin to begin with it could cause a bulge when the bullet is seated. I would have scraped them also.

You could weigh them and compare to other brass you didn't have a problem with and see if there a large difference.
 
#7 ·
RCC:

Use a brass catcher on your hand:
http://www.amazon.com/Brass-Catcher-for-Semi-automatic-Pistols/dp/B00J4VIVCK/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1417974047&sr=8-8&keywords=caldwell brass catcher

I loose little brass that way. Also if you use Starline brass and have to pick it up off the floor or ground the head stamp will reveal it is yours as few people use Starline brass.

LDBennett

Got to place an Amazon order this week , I think I'll try this, thanks
 
#6 ·
Tell us about the bullets you are using. Are they lead bullets, or jacketed?
 
#9 ·
Update:
I did 100% case gauge inspection on my 900 45ACP reloads and found several more that failed to plunk. The headstamps were more Federal and now Aguila. With the exception of a few, I pulled the bullets and reloaded them in other brass. The Aguila brass didn't even come close to plunking.

My 5 - 10% random plunk test didn't detect any of these. From here on out, 100% of my reloads will go through my Wilson case gauges.
 
#11 ·

LD,
I have not yet investigated the cause of this brass. I have it all set aside and plan to dig into it in a couple of days when I get back home. If I had to put money on it, I would suspect the case is too long and my crimp is causing the brass to bulge. I'll confess, I have not been checking the length of my pistol brass. I guess I need to add that to my work flow. I'll report my findings later this week.

Thanks for the tip on the Lyman gauge, I've had that in my Midway wishlist for over a year. Probably wise to get it since I have so much "once fire brass."

Thanks for your comments!
 
#12 ·
RCC:

In 30+ years of shooting I have only on one occasion in the very early years checked pistol brass for case length. But I start from new brass, not brass discarded by others. In you case before you add brass you need to inspect it including case length. But remember it is not meaningful unless the cases are sized first as sizing can make the cases grow in length.

I would add that today you have to be careful about which range brass you use as some the ECO friendly pistol brass does not use the traditional primer size. 45ACP is an example. The ECO stuff uses small pistol primers instead of large pistol primers used since the turn of the 20th century. Then there is the steel case ammo and the foreign ammo that uses Berdan primer instead of boxer primers. Mixing in the Berdan stuff will break your de-priming rod of the sizing die. Steel cases can not be reloaded as steel does not have the elastic properties of brass.

LDBennett
 
#14 ·

The last few days I've been thinking about all this brass I collect and I'm going to stop scooping up everyone's brass; at least for a while. I don't pick up any steel or aluminum cases. I do sort out SPP 45 ACP and plan to use them when I have enough to load. I also don't monkey with any military or Berdan .223 brass.
 
#13 ·
does the indoor range allow full auto? Maybe someone had a 45 ACP with a happy switch and fired it in there and you ended up with a few pieces that were fired through it. With high cycle rates, bulges can happen.
Something similar happened to me when I bought 9mm range brass. I had to toss almost 20 percent of them due to bulges and I found out later that the range rents 9mm full autos.
 
#15 ·

I don't believe they allow full auto since they don't allow"rapid fire". I did find it interesting that all my Federal brass (from American Eagle loads) is just fine but the mystery Federal from someone else gave me problems. Is there more than one Federal head stamp? I'm assuming +P has thicker walls. Between the 900 rounds, about 30 pieces failed my plunk test, most of this was those "mystery" Federal cases with a few Aguila.
 
#16 ·
I'm wondering if any of these bullets would have run thru your pistol with out problems. I don't own a case length gauge, and I don't measure my bullets. Could it be that some might not pass your specifications? Probably, but they still work fine.
 
#19 ·
Agreed, the Wilson case gauges are cut to minimum chamber specs, a round that is a tight fit in a gauge will practically rattle around in the chamber of many firearms. At one point I was experiencing a few failures to fit in the gauge due to too light of a taper crimp. At other times it is a nick or bur on the rim of the brass that is easily removed with a file. Every once in a while I swear the brass isn't straight and binds up on the sides of the gauge.

I suggest marking these questionable pieces of brass on the head with a sharpie and seeing if they cause the feeding failures or not. I do the same thing when I think I might have a primer seated too high or too low, except I only mark the primer in those instances.

Another option is to simply toss/recycle the questionable brass. Not because it might be causing feeding failures, but because it slows down your QA efforts.
 
#20 ·
I don't reload for precision, I reload for cost. That being said I might be missing something in your concerns. I've made bullets for my revolvers that would not drop into the cylinder, they had to pushed in, but they worked fine. I'm sure that if I removed the barrel from any of my semi-auto pistols, and tried a plunk test with my ammo, that some of it would not just "drop in". Still with the power of the slide spring, any bullet that won't pass the plunk test will be forced in by the returning slide. And they all work just fine. Maybe you are going above, and beyond, what you need to be doing?
 
#21 ·
The only concern being reliability in a semi-auto. I'm the same way as you with my Blackhawk when target shooting, as long as I can cram that sucker in there and get it out again then all is good. What I don't want to be doing is running practice ammo through my carry gun and have a failure to feed that I can't be certain is the ammo or the gun.
 
#22 ·
This really strange. I have never measured or trimmed a case for a semi auto pistol. I have never used a case gauge for them either. I have plunked some in the barrel of the pistol when starting with a new never used before bullet but that was to make sure the head space was correct. I have never had a bulged case in the semi auto rounds for any reason. I have had some problems with failure to feed on some new loading but that has always been a C.O.L. issue. A couple years ago I started seating and crimping in separate operations using the Lee FCD ( I know LD ! ) because I didn't want to re-adjust my seating die. There are times using the FCD and lead semi wad cutters that certain head stamps will be sized down a wee bit when going through that sizing ring in the FDC. I sense we are making a problem where one doesn't exist. But heck, I read all these posts and hang out here to learn and I have learned many times.
 
#24 ·
I don't know drymag but I have some Winchester Western (WW) .45 acp brass I purchased new around 35 years ago. It was my first .45 acp brass and it has been loaded and fired many, many times. The case heads are getting worn and once in a while now one will split but the others are still going strong. That is a lot of working of those cases.
 
#26 ·
Finally got a chance to look at those failed cases. Some of them I intentional damaged so they would not show up in my brass bucket, others I put in a separate bucket so I was able to measure them. None exceeded the maximum case length of .898. I did not measure the case diameter because once they were resized, I could plunk the brass perfectly in my case gauge. The bullets all measured .451 and were used in other cases which plunked just fine.

Aguila
.894
.897
.893
.895
.893
.893
.891
.888
.890
.895

Federal
.893
.895
.893
.889

Since 9/2/14, I have loaded 1200 45 ACP rounds on a variety of head stamps. Many of them were from American Eagle ammo which I had marked with Red. The Federal brass that failed did not have any red on the head so It's safe to assuming these are someone elses brass. I also do not know where the Aguila came from.
 
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