[Old94]

Hi, I am doing a full tear down on a Winchester 1894 Carbine Sporting Rifle 32-40, s/n 4052, 26” Octagon Barrel. I have gotten to the point where the Forearm is loose and ready to come off, but the little bracket for the screw threads is in the way of moving the Forearm forward enough to clear. Needs another 1/16 or 1/8 of an inch. Is there a trick to getting that Wooden Forearm off without breaking it?

Next of course is how to remove the Full Magazine as well.

Thank You.

 

[Helix_FR]

Moved you to the proper section. The mag tube needs to be removed out of the forearm to get it off. Prying it off will break the forearm. Removing the tube requires you to loosen the screw on the bottom at the end of the tube on the muzzle end. This screw puts tension on the mag tube to keep it tight in the forearm. Do not fully remove it of the cap and mag spring will fly out. Remove the screw from the bracket that holds the barrel to the mag tube. The remove the screw from the forearm bracket and pull it forward. The mag tube will now pull out. The spring and the follower will come out of the tube so be sure to grab them.

 

[Old94]

Thank you Helix_FR of Helixgunsmith.com for the very helpful reply. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, I think I have removed everything you have mentioned. The spring was broken inside the Magazine, so it did not go anywhere. I will have to replace it. My assumption at this point is that either I must pull very hard on the Magazine or remove the little pin around the "Ring" bracket holding it to the barrel, but I will not do anything without advice. My Magazine Plug does not have two holes going all the way through to the barrel and a long screw. It has only one hole and a filler screw that does not touch the barrel. It does not utilize Front and Rear Bands either. Instead, it utilizes an end cap over the wooden Forearm held on with two screws and a "Ring" bracket toward the muzzel end to secure the Magazine to the barrel. The "Ring" bracket appears to have a pin going through it near the barrel. Possibly driving that out, loosens the grip of the ring? I will show a couple of pictures:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/I0l1H7ChUvxBcl3s_WKOFKNtpkjlSk34TV1m1--gsQg?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Z11XcCJHnw70r1jhPMg5rqNtpkjlSk34TV1m1--gsQg?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_eLqswZxzPdI-G7svBFcK6NtpkjlSk34TV1m1--gsQg?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8mwrjoGQll4kj-JbjXWTXKNtpkjlSk34TV1m1--gsQg?feat=directlink

 

[nmckenzie]

or remove the little pin around the "Ring" bracket holding it to the barrel, but I will not do anything without advice.

If memory serves me, the pin through what you've described as a ring bracket passes through a corresponding groove on the top of the magazine tube, thus preventing any fore-aft movement. Use a pin punch to tap the magazine ring pin clear, perhaps let a few drops of penetrating oil work their way betwen the ring and the tube, and you should be able to draw the mag tube straight forward.

 

[nmckenzie]

p.s. to previous: The Numrich Arms on-line schematic for the Winchester 1892 shows the relationship between the ring, mag tube, pin and barrel. It works the same way on '94s that have the forend cap retained by a set screw on each side, and the mag cap retained by a short screw from below.

 

[Old94]

Thank you. Any further advice if the Magazine is almost frozen in place. I tapped the muzzel on a piece of redwood 2x4 a number of times and managed to move it forward about 1/4" or so almost flush with the muzzel, but I can not seem to get it to go much further. I am soaking it in penetrating oil, but not sure that is going to do it. It had already been in it a number of days. Any advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated. So close.

 

[nmckenzie]

Assuming the forend cap screws, magazine cap screw, and magazine ring pin have been removed, the magazine tube should be free of any restraints. But of course that'd be too easy. The last thing you want to do is grab the tube and attempt to pull it clear, but if you can find or fashion a dowel that fits VERY snugly into the front of the mag tube - without expanding the tube, you may be able to grasp the outside with a padded pliers, then oh-so-gently see if you can twist the tube a few degrees to one side and then the other, and if it loosens you should be able to slide it out. I'd use this method as an absolute dead-last resort though, because the chance of collapsing the tube is staring you right in the face. You'd mentioned doing a complete tear-down of the '94. By that do you mean everything - as in lifter, bolt, lock and so forth? If so, you may be able to attack the tube from within by replacing the magazine cap and its retaining screw, then sliding a wooden dowel in from behind, through the receiver, and gently tapping to see if you can move the tube forward. My guess is that the pin groove on the top of the magazine tube is hanging up just enough on the magazine ring to make things difficult.

 

[nmckenzie]

p.s. to previous: Just dawned on me that you already have something that fits precisely into the front of the tube - the mag tube's cap. You might try replacing the cap and its retaining screw, and if it's a snug fit you might try the padded pliers in the area backed up by the plug.

 

[Helix_FR]

So let me get this right before I get to anything else. You have the forearm all the way forward, up the mag tube at the muzzle and you still can pull the mag tube out and clear of the action? If so you may actually have the tube wedged in the forearm and the forearm is wedged on the barrel. Bring the forearm back to the socket in the receiver. If you have any type of tension on either part, something is wrong.

 

[Old94]

Thank you nmckenzie. Great ideas. I will try them this weekend or during the week if I can find the time.
And to Helix_FR, from the view in the Receiver, the Magazine has not yet cleared the Receiver and the opposite end of the Magazine is almost flush with the Muzzel. The Wooden Forearm has only been able to move forward a 1/16 of an inch, if that. Nothing worth mentioning. It does appear to be wedged in the Receiver.

 

[Helix_FR]

My guess is the forearm is swollen from moisture and its grabbing the mag tube.

 

[Jim K]

It is pretty common on old guns to find the forearm rusted to the magazine tube because the wood got wet at some point. The only advice I can offer is to be gentle and patient and you can probably work it loose. The new guns have a magazine tube made out of seamless tubing and are fairly strong. The old tubes are wrapped sheet metal and have an open seam, meaning they are easily crushed.

Jim

 

[Old94]

Thanks again everyone for the very thorough advice. I have been soaking the small gap I created between the Receiver Forearm and the Mag Tube. I will report back once I try these ideas with a good measure of patience.

 

[Old94]

Well folks, I wanted to report back with success and thanks to all. I ended up purchasing a 36" x 1/2" Oak Dowel (for push rod) & a short piece of 5/8" Poplar Dowel (Softer for Magazine Plug). I cut a small 5/8" plug for the end of the Magazine and trimmed it to make it slightly smaller so it was a snug fit and drilled a hole in the plug and put a temporary wood screw in place. Then, when I went to put the push rod through the receiver into the Magazine, it would not clear the Upper Tang (long piece that slopes downward off the back of the Receiver). So, I cut the Dowel Push Rod into several 5" pieces. I then loaded them into the Magazine one at a time leaving a 6" piece remaining. I then angled another wood dowel downward to meet the last Push Rod piece and began taping with a hammer. Several medium solid tapes and it began to move. It had to be taped most of the way out.
THE CONCLUSION:
There was a minor bit of surface rust in one small spot, but I think the biggest issue was years of caked on oil, grease and dirt just locked it into place.
My thanks go out to everyone. I hope this helps someone else down the road.
I will say too, it was very handy to find out that the First Model 1894 was built with many of the same parts or more similarly to the 1892.

 

[Jim K]

A note to be careful with those magazine rings. Folks think they are dovetailed in like a sight base and try to drive them straight out. But they are actually cut round and so is the cut in the barrel. They are removed by turning them, then they come right out unless rusted in. If the ring is not tight, the mag tube itself can be used to turn it, or better a dowel or rod of the right diameter.

Jim