vintage piece???

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by ysacres, Mar 7, 2003.

  1. ysacres

    ysacres Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Location:
    Pullman WA
    nenoshi
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (2/8/02 1:19:17 am)
    Reply vintage piece???
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    i came across a 1911A1 in a shop selling surplus stuff. the shop owner said that the piece was vietnam-war vintage. i checked the pistol and except for the serial number 'C15XXX', there were no other marks (proofmarks or otherwise) that were visible. it was selling for 14,500 bucks (roughly $300.00).

    is there a way to determine make, model and vintage? it looks a bit old but is still in good condition (i hope). thanks a lot and best regards.

    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2357
    (2/8/02 6:14:00 am)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    Welcome nenoshi. $300.00 is very cheap for a government issue .45.

    One of the guys who are experts on the 1911's will be along to set you straight on the vintage.

    The model and maker should have been stamped on the pistol
    We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans... -- Bill Clinton, US President (USA Today, 11 Mar 1993, page 2a)

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 1246
    (2/8/02 8:40:22 am)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    Welcome to the board. If you had listed one or two more #'s in the serial #, this would be more accurate. I would go back to the shop and look at the pistol again for any faint markings. The 1911A1 "COULD" be a commercial Colt made anywhere from 1927 to 1931. But without additional information this will be a tough call.

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1979
    (2/8/02 9:54:51 am)
    Reply
    Re: vintage piece???
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    The lack of any other marks, and that the serial number is "faint" really makes me suspicious of a poor refinish. That serial number is commercial production, and early. There should be markings on both sides of the slide.

    If the gun is a ground-down refinish, $300US may be too much.


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1610
    (2/8/02 9:55:00 am)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    If this pistol is indeed a Colt....the "C" indicates it's a commercial, not military one. Also, the serial # would be long before the Vietnam era.

    C 15XXX would indicate that it's an M1911, not an A1....and it would have been manufactured in 1914.

    If you can go back to the shop and tell us everthing that's written on both the slide and the frame, we can probably identify it for you.

    Edited by: Xracer at: 2/8/02 9:59:59 am

    nenoshi
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (2/10/02 9:04:50 pm)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    i was back at the store during the weekend to check the gun. it looked like a 1911A1; rounded mainspring, crescent cuts at the rear of the trigger guard, long-ish hammer spur, short trigger, miniscule front sight...

    i checked and double checked the gun for any markings whatsoever. i couldn't even find faint marks; i checked the slide (top, sides); frame and trigger guard area and i could not find any markings on it.

    i spent a good 30 minutes poring over the thing and there was absolutely nothing. i left the store, hopes dashed...but all is not lost.

    till then...



    nenoshi
    Member
    Posts: 3
    (2/10/02 9:46:45 pm)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    by the way, the SN is 'C15273'. thanks again for all the insights.

    till then...

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1999
    (2/10/02 10:16:00 pm)
    Reply
    Re: vintage piece???
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    I would pass on it at almost any price.


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    BlackGun
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3004
    (2/11/02 10:03:25 am)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    Welcome aboard nenoshi ! If you get any further info that that weapon, let us know. By the way where do you hail from?

    Tread On Me, But, Leave My DONUT Alone! !


    BlackGUN

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1632
    (2/11/02 4:04:29 pm)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    Well, the cuts behind the trigger guard make it an A1, but the serial # make it an '11....strange, strange, strange!

    All of the other stuff....mainspring housing, grip safety, trigger, hammer, slide...can be changed, but I don't know how you can get an A1 frame with an '11 serial number.

    OK, nenoshi.....you've managed to stump the experts.....go down to the Pumphouse Saloon and claim your free beer!

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2005
    (2/11/02 6:04:11 pm)
    Reply
    Re: vintage piece???
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    Simple.

    Not a Colt frame.


    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    nenoshi
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (2/11/02 9:03:58 pm)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    BTW, i'm writing from the philippines. thank you all for the insights and advice. all this confusion has got me thinking; is it remotely possible that the gun was put together from a motley crew of cannibalized parts?

    however, the only thing i can't seem to reconcile with is the fact that if the slide is a colt, how come i can't find a single mark that would point to it as a colt. i remember asking the owner if they got all the guns this way from the dealer, although he answered in the affirmative, he also added that they assembled most of the guns themselves.

    and one more thing, this will probably stump you all even more...the SN was stamped not on the frame but on the slide. how's that for a pop quiz?

    'twas probably a poor imitation. can i get my beer now? thanks again and best regards!

    AntiqueDr
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2008
    (2/11/02 9:24:21 pm)
    Reply
    Re: vintage piece???
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    I dont understand why we are thinking the slide is Colt. Many guns of differing types were literally hand-made by itinerant laborers in Southeast Asia prior to and during the Vietnam conflict. I've seen 1896 Bolo's, M&P revolvers, wierd pseudo-Brownings, you name it.

    It may not even be safe to shoot. Interesting as a curiosity, though.



    PS, Blackgun, it's not importable.
    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
    www.apaxenterprises.com

    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 1256
    (2/12/02 8:17:24 am)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    No serial # on receiver.......definately not USA made.

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1635
    (2/12/02 10:51:13 am)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    OK! If the serial # isn't on the frame...as Shooter45 says, not a US-made frame. Also, Colt never serialized the slides.

    It's a "Bitsa" (bitsa this....bitsa that).

    It may be OK as a shooter.....but why take the chance. I'd pass on this one.

    BlackGun
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3033
    (2/12/02 11:21:06 am)
    Reply Re: vintage piece???
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    Hummmmmmmmmmm! After reading this thread, even I would pass on this one and I don't pass on much.
    Tread On Me, But, Leave My DONUT Alone! !


    BlackGUN