War is coming, lets hope people know what they are doing

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1952Sniper, Mar 19, 2003.

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  1. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

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    dksdks
    Member
    Posts: 37
    (3/16/03 1:23:15 am)
    Reply War is coming, lets hope people know what they are doing
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    Hopefully Saddam's army is so weak and has no defence that it can be defeated in a few days...

    Just a thought; if his armed forces are found to be useless there will be a problem justifying that saddam was a real threat which is what let to the war in the first place. I hope the war will not be made to drag on just to show that saddam was an actual threat...


    WyomingSwede
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 769
    (3/16/03 7:29:12 am)
    Reply Re: War is coming, lets hope people know what they are doing
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    Lets go in...take out what needs taking out...put Saddam where groundhogs will be delivering his mail...and get our boys home. Probably be like Afghanistan...show them what democracy is like...then they will start whining for US aid.
    Personally I hope it is short, sweet, and total.

    Dont mark me on as a "warmonger"...I am a vet and know what it takes. We have been heavy around here with call ups for National Guard. The guys I talk to say...'I'm ready to go...lets do it right so our kids dont have to go back and fix it.'
    God bless em all.

    swede
    Wyoming Swede


    jzdziarski
    Member
    Posts: 22
    (3/16/03 7:32:11 am)
    Reply Re: War is coming, lets hope people know what they are doing
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    If it's anything like afghanistan we won't be able to extract saddam.


    Jay625
    Member
    Posts: 46
    (3/16/03 7:50:44 am)
    Reply Re: War is coming, lets hope people know what they are doing
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    I don't care if saddam is extracted or not. I'd just as soon see him buried there.

    "lets hope people know what they're doing"

    Sir, as a combat vet, "they're" doing just exactly what needs to be done. As evidenced by the World Trade Center attacks, the United States is going to have to fight them. In my mind, the only question is.......fight them on our ground or theirs. My vote is for their ground. The freedoms this country enjoys have never been, are not, and never will be, without cost.


    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5801
    (3/16/03 9:04:37 am)
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    Re: War is coming, lets hope people know what they are doing
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    people will only know what they are fed.

    Interesting enough, a congressman has a proposal w/19 supporters that says in rebuilding Iraq, NO US monies will go to any contry that's not backing us.

    Another "Talking Head" says fine... but the report that outlines the French ties to Iraq also has many US ties to Iraq.

    WTF?

    MSNBC question of the day "Will we go to war this week?

    Time will tell...

    [email protected]


    Hardrada55
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (3/16/03 9:30:59 am)
    Reply War is coming....
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    "Sir, as a combat vet, "they're" doing just exactly what needs to be done. As evidenced by the World Trade Center attacks, the United States is going to have to fight them. In my mind, the only question is.......fight them on our ground or theirs. My vote is for their ground. The freedoms this country enjoys have never been, are not, and never will be, without cost."

    If to make war is exactly what needs to be done. Why Iraq? "As evidenced by the World Trade Center attacks, the United States is going to have to fight them." Who is "them"? The Iraqis? Al Qaeda? The Saudis? the North Koreans? The Israelis? Why attack Iraq, they have done NOTHING to the U.S.A. ! What's happening seems to be similar to getting punched in the nose by the neighborhood bully.... and turning around and beating the crap out of the littleist, weakest kid you can find. There is no denying Saddam is a "Baaaad" man. But he hasn't done anything remotely threatening American interests since '91. Don't get me wrong. I believe the last sentence in the quote is the gosple. I'm not anti-war. I'm pro kicking the crap out of those who attack America, our real enemies.


    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5805
    (3/16/03 10:01:38 am)
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    Re: War is coming....
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    I agree with a fellow that said Colin Powell is a well respected and knows his business, and that Colin Powell displayed his proof... and that Colin Powell can read the proof better than anyone.

    Are we to believe Sadam over Powell?

    WMD is why Sadam is in our sights.

    [email protected]


    TF118
    Member
    Posts: 19
    (3/16/03 11:32:18 am)
    Reply Re: War is coming....
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    Hey, Hardrada55, Saddam has done nothing against the US !?! What the hell are you thinking ? Saddam has been linked to Al Qaeda who brought us 9/11...and he has also been linked to other terrorist groups...giving them training camp's and training plus financial assistance ...his military anti-air battery's have fired on US fighters patrolling the ''No fly zone'' which by the way, so far the only reason Saddam hasn't pulled off anything outright & big with his own military is because we are present and every time he try's we ''slap his hand'' meanwhile he plots & plans & sneak's & lies ...I suppose you think we need to wait until he does attack the US or kill a bunch of our troop's ! He has and continues to attack us by supporting terrorist and by firing on our aircraft but I guess we should wait for an Iraqi nuke or a chemical attack carried out by terrorist who are trained, supplied & funded by Saddam...does it take another Pearl Harbor to warrant a retaliatory attack ! ?!
    Oh & it’s not like ‘’beating up on the littlest kid on the block’’…it’s more like taking a loaded gun away from a disillusioned, violent, scheming adolescent punk BEFORE he uses it…again !! Anyone who thinks differently is a gullible fool.

    TF118, disabled Gulf War Vet ...been there done that ...too bad we weren’t allowed to finish it then.


    armedandsafe
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 247
    (3/16/03 11:37:59 am)
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    Re: War is coming....
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    We have criminals on the street who have robbed, mugged and murdered. We haven't taken them out, yet, because the justification is not yet there to take them to court.

    The guy next door is seen stockpiling ammonium nitrate rich fertilizer, diesel fuel, black powder and packing this into 50 gallon drums. He has reinforced his doors and windows with steel plate and is working on a delivery-van in the back yard, wrapping the cargo compartment with coils of hardened wire. This has been observed and reported.

    When the police set up to raid this fellow's premises, the neighbors complain because "He hasn't hurt us, yet."

    Armed and Safe - not just a theory


    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5808
    (3/16/03 12:29:56 pm)
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    Re: War is coming....
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    it seems to go back to who you want to believe...

    Many want to believe that GW is a Bully... some think GW wants the Iraqi oil. And now others think GW wants to stimulate our economy with a war.

    All those believe that Saddam has destroyed his WMD, and he's telling the truth?

    It don't take a brain surgen to through that bullshite.

    [email protected]


    Hardrada55
    Member
    Posts: 11
    (3/16/03 1:33:16 pm)
    Reply War is coming...
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    Hi TF118! - Where did most of the people who pulled off 9-11 come from? Iraq or Saudi Arabia? Where did the millions of dollars of Osama and Al Qaeda come from? Iraq or Saudi Arabia? What proof, what FACTS, beyond a bald conclusory statement by our government, is there that connects Iraq and Al Qaeda? Very little, maybe nothing that I've seen. Not nearly as much evidence as that which connects Al Qaeda and Saudi Arabia. I am not a pacifist. I have no problem with "No Fly" zones or loosing the "Wild Weasels" on Saddams AA batterys. That's left overs from '91. Our war on Iraq will not be in retaliation for any attack on the U.S. or legitimate American interests. This will be a preemptive attack. Preemptive attacks are a dangerous thing. They are based on the assumption (and you know what they say about assumptions....) that you know what the other fellow is going to do. We can only speculate at what Saddam may be planning. Preemptive attacks based on speculation are, in my opinion, not the American way of doing things. If it was up to me, I would leave the cheap shots and sucker punches to the bad guys.
    I do think about hell. I try to avoid it. I also respect your opinions and your right to voice those opinions, so I would avoid calling one who disagrees with me a "gullible fool".


    TF118
    Member
    Posts: 20
    (3/16/03 2:57:07 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming...
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    Hi Hardrada55, I'm certainly not trying to sling any dung around or deny anyone the right to their own opinion …but if you were to consider Saddam’s track record you would be enlightened …MY OPINION is that Saddam is nothing more than a murderous tyrant, a terrorist with his own country. He IS a threat to his neighbor’s and to the USA, it has been confirmed that he allows for & provides aid and assistance to any anti American terrorist group’s.
    Also, I really hope that your statement that ‘’I have no problem with "No Fly" zones or loosing the "Wild Weasels" on Saddams AA batterys.’’ Is a typo. Especially the part about loosing the wild weasels.
    Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, he strives to obtain nukes and when he does (which we will not allow, no thanks to your type of thinking) what do you think he will do with theme ? Just Decoration ?
    I don’t relish the thought of another GW however he won’t disarm willingly and given his past record it is in everyone’s best interest the he is neutralized. He has been lieing and deceiving for 12 years now. What makes you think that if left alone he can / will ‘’play nice with other’s ‘’, really ?
    P.S. The George Washington bridge is FOR SALE, interested ?


    TF118
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (3/16/03 3:14:57 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming...
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    Oh, the answer too your question about where they came from & where their money came from, they came from all region's of the middle east, including Iraq, but many were trained in Iraq, they were all Muslim extremist, the money came from the middle east, a lot from Saddam, who is an extremist and openly anti-America. A pre-emptive strike is the best way to handle this situation. It won't go away and Saddam only responds to force. If you'd rather wait for him to put a nuke into your back yard or wait for an extremely hi death toll dealt onto America by Saddam before acting ?
    My friend you are sadly unaware of the circumstances


    Hardrada55
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (3/16/03 3:56:55 pm)
    Reply War is coming....
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    Here are the names and nationalities of the hijackers and the places they came into the U.S.A. from. Easy to check facts.

    Khalid Al-Midhar (or Almihdhar) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Nawaf Al-Hamzi (or Alhamzi) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained tourist visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Salem Al-Hamzi (or Alhamzi)- Saudi Arabian
    Obtained tourist visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Majed Moqed - Saudi Arabian
    Entered on tourist visa obtained in Saudi Arabia.

    Hani Hasan Hanjour (26) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained student visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Satam Al-Suqami (25) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained business visa in Saudi Arabia (but was residing in United Arab Emirates).

    Waleed Al-Shehri (or Alshehri) (21) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained tourist visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Wael (or Wail) Al-Shehri (or Alshehri) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained tourist visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Mohamed Atta - Egyptian (43)
    Obtained visitor visa in Berlin Germany, May 2000.

    Abdulaziz Al-Omari (or Alomari) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained tourist visa in Saudi Arabia in June 2001.

    Marwan Al-Shehhi (or Alshehhi) (23)
    Citizen of United Arab Republic.

    Fayez Ahmed Rashid Ahmed Al-Qadi Banihammad (aka Fayez Ahmed)
    Citizen of United Arab Republic.

    Ahmed Al-Ghamdi (or Alghamdi) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained tourist visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Hamza Saleh Al-Ghamdi (or Alghamdi) (20) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Mohand Al-Shehri (or Alshehri) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained tourist visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Saeed Al-Ghamdi (or Alghamdi) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained tourist visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Ahmed Ibrahim A. Al-Haznawi (or Alhaznawi) (21) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained tourist visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Ahmed Abdullah Al-Nami (or Alnami) (23) - Saudi Arabian
    Obtained tourist visa in Saudi Arabia.

    Ziad Samir Jarrah - Lebanese
    Obtained tourist visa in Germany.

    I don't see any Iraqis here. What else did you get wrong? Can you show me where you're right? My friend, you are the one who doesn't check the facts. Not that any of this is going to matter after we go to war. I pray that God preserve the U.S.A.!


    TF118
    Member
    Posts: 22
    (3/16/03 4:36:37 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming....
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    Who trained them & where I believe you will find that while not all Al Qaeda training camps were in Iraq nor were they sponsored solely by Iraq, there are training camps in Iraq and Iraq encourages, reward's & finances them.
    Our fight is not against the Iraqi people ...it is against a ruthless lying coward...Saddam, his regime & also only in part for his roll in supporting terrorist action's against the U.S. and allies...specifically paying large ''dowries'' to the families of so called ''martyr’s'' AKA suicide bombers.
    So you see my friend I am not the one who’s wrong…evidently you are clueless as to the ‘’why’’ & the ‘’who’’ we are going to war with. If you truly think of Saddam as the ‘’weakest kid on the block ‘’ I have no sympathy for you. Further I choose not to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent !


    bullelk
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 443
    (3/16/03 5:55:12 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming, lets hope people know what they are doing
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    DKS,

    No problem, everything will turn out fine, except I know we will have casualtys. That's all in war and it can't be avoided, but we can get it over with in no time.

    I have confidence in our military, it is the most advanced and highly technological military force in the world. I don't give a crap who they are. They are going to be overwhelmed with our power once it starts. Watch them start waving the white French flags that they borrowed from France.
    "If All Else Fails, Read The Directions"
    If You Can Find The Damn Things!


    Hardrada55
    Member
    Posts: 13
    (3/16/03 6:15:47 pm)
    Reply War is coming...
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    Well, at least we can agree that Saddam is a lying, murdering coward and alot of other bad things. But, in my opinion, he is not worth going to war against. He is not worth the American lives and American treasure it will cost. Let's help the people in that part of the world get their act together some other way besides going to war. Now, Osama Bin Laden will be worth getting. Dedicated American soldiers have already lost their lives and others will probably lose their lives killing that piece of human waste. I supported the first Gulf War. I support the American action in Afghanistan. I support American fighting men and women where ever they are.
    I guess, concerning Iraq, I AM clueless about the "why" and "who" we are going to war with. Clues are facts on which we base our judgments and actions. And I just don't see enough "clues" (facts) to justify going to war against Iraq, no matter what the President says. That is why I oppose this war. From your statements about Iraqis being amongst the September 11 hijackers, and your inability to give me facts supporting your position, I must conclude that you are just as clueless as I am. Too bad we reached different conclusions. I wish you well my friend.


    TF118
    Member
    Posts: 23
    (3/16/03 7:03:06 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming...
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    Just for the record, I never said that any of the hijackers were Iraqi, I said Saddam support's Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. He also provides safe haven for same & training camps and training in Iraq. Further more, the main reason for this war is to disarm him of weapons of mass destruction, the terrorist connection is just one more straw on the camels back. So not only are you disillusioned, you evidently have a selective memory & poor reading & comprehension skills.
    He has weapons of mass destruction, he is / was busy building & gathering more, he's looking to gain nukes, and he will use them if he gets them. You could easily compare him to Hitler. If you believe any of his deceit and rhetoric and you truly believe he's not a threat, I just don't know what else to say. SADDAM WILL NEVER GIVE UP HIS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION WILLINGLY!! If you think that he is not a threat then you would be simple minded and refer back to my previous statement about the GW bridge.
    I am a Gulf War Veteran, 100% disabled, service connected, & terminal from exposure to sarin nerve gas. I speak from first hand experience of 5 years in special operations in the Persian Gulf region before, during and after the Gulf War.

    Edited by: TF118 at: 3/16/03 8:00:22 pm


    Hardrada55
    Member
    Posts: 14
    (3/16/03 11:00:07 pm)
    Reply War is coming....
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    You have my utmost respect and appreciation for your sacrifice in the service of our country. I too have on occasion compared Saddam to a "tin-pot" Hitler. But "tin-pot" dictators are "a dime-a-dozen" in this world. Some of those "tin-pot" dicators committ mass murders, like Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe. Some have nuclear weapons, like our "allies", the Pakistanis and Israelis or our old enemies, the North Koreans and Chinese. Some have other "Weapons of Mass Destruction". Some of these dictators hate us and some love.... our money. But just because some of these guys are "tin-pot" dictators and Hitler wanabes who wish us ill doesn't mean we go in and invade them. Heck, we'd be invading half the countries on Earth.
    I don't believe a word that comes out of Saddam's mouth. I don't think he will ever willingly give up "Weapons of Mass Destruction". He is definitely a threat to Israel and to his neighbors. I don't believe Saddam is near the threat to America our government makes him out to be, though. Let Saddam's neighbors deal with him. Let the U.N. deal with him through sanctions and inspections. Let the Iraqi people who hate Saddam have enough money and ammo and eventually some of them will deal with him. I am not simple minded. I sincerely hope this war turns out the best for our country. I hope it's a walk over. We all have too much riding on it for it to turn out badly. We still disagree and probably always will. I suggest we just agree to disagree. God Bless.


    TF118
    Member
    Posts: 24
    (3/16/03 11:30:31 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming....
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    Well Hardrada55 at least we agree on something...I will apologize though for calling any names…just gets my hackles up when somebody JUST DON’T GET IT .
    Some people think that we should wait for the other guy to make the first move…or that if we do nothing it will go away…well this is America …you are allowed to think whatever you wish & the right to speak out and voice your opinions and that right was protected by people like me …Veterans & is still being protected by our military as we speak …their life’s are on the line protecting us and the freedom that would be in jeopardy if our leaders thought like you. What subject do you teach? What type of attorney are you?


    WyomingSwede
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 774
    (3/17/03 6:01:38 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming....
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    I want to compliment Hardrada & TF118 on setting an example for the rest of us...they are diametrically opposed on an issue, however can still remain civil. No one is questioning anyone's patriotism here. We all just see things though different eyes and life experiences.

    swede
    Wyoming Swede


    TF118
    Member
    Posts: 27
    (3/17/03 7:09:41 pm)
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    Thanks Swede....I found it difficult to refrain from thoroughly thrashing this guy verbally but this is America & everyone’s entitled to his own opinion ….no matter how wrong they are.


    Tennessee Boomerang
    Member
    Posts: 15
    (3/17/03 7:38:30 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming....
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    OK, I guess I have to change my mind about going to war. The left is finally right, Iraq has not attacked us, yet. I will only be convinced when San Francisco and Seattle are wiped out with a chemical or biological attack. At that point it would be a tragedy of monumental importance that I would only then consider committing troops.

    I wonder if the left has ever thought about it in those terms?
    Boomer

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."


    TF118
    Member
    Posts: 28
    (3/17/03 8:56:24 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming....
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    TB I believe your light bulb is burnt out...the danger is clear and evident for anyone to see...if you can see what yer looking at ...another one of them. Them being people who won't stand up for themselves until they've already had the living sh** kicked out of them. Wake up and smell the sarin. Face REALITY !!!!!!!

    Them make me wanta PUKE !


    Tennessee Boomerang
    Member
    Posts: 17
    (3/17/03 9:11:43 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming....
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    TF118 - Apparently you don't recognize sarcasm.[ ]
    Boomer

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."


    bullelk
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 455
    (3/17/03 9:32:01 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming....
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    TF118,

    What the hell, we'll know in a couple of days what the outcome will be, then we will find out for sure if Saddam had a full house or just ten high. In any event, it'll be over and we can get back on concentrating on the problems within our own country. Relax a little and have a beer with me.

    The left will finally yield, maybe??
    "If All Else Fails, Read The Directions"
    If You Can Find The Damn Things!


    TF118
    Member
    Posts: 29
    (3/17/03 9:33:10 pm)
    Reply Re: War is coming....
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    GOOD ONE BOOMER ! YOU GOT ME OOP'S
     
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