Was the Atlanta Shoot a Good Shoot?

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Alaska444, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    Not being an LEO, but having gone to several CCW classes which leaves me knowing a bit more than nothing, but perhaps not much more, I can't make up my mind whether the shoot was a good shoot or a criminal action by the cop.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/rayshard-brooks-atlanta-homicide-gunshot-wounds-back-autopsy

    Dan Bongino, ex NYPD and Secret Service was adamant that the cop was in his rights to shoot the perp.

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/dan-bongino-atlanta-rayshard-brooks-shooting

    Any LEO's on TFF may be able to comment on what they think about this tragic incident where a man lost his life. Looks like much was his own fault but was deadly force justified. My gut reaction is that yes, it was just based on furtive movements of a suspect he was pursuing.

    Any thoughts from folks who do this for a living? Or retired LEO's?

    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. eastbanks

    eastbanks Well-Known Member

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    i,m in the not sure if it was needed camp, but it did light another not needed fire.
     
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  3. SeeMor Guns

    SeeMor Guns Well-Known Member

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    No. All the guy had was a taser. He was not a mortal threat which is what justifies lethal force. That is my 2 cents.


    However, I am not LEO nor have I ever been. I have not been in the situation where I had to choose whether or not to use lethal force. I hope I am never in that position.
     
  4. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    The baby cop who was not fired caused it when he lost control of his taser. He warned the guy he would tase him, lost the taser and then that was the probable direct cause of his death when he fired the taser at the cop in pursuit.

    Usually, when something goes wrong, it is a series of mistakes, not simply one. But the cop fired I have the most sympathy in many ways trying to subdue the guy essentially by himself as much as help as the other cop was.

    Then with adrenaline surging, the creep turned, discharged the taser and that was followed quickly by 3 shots, apparently 2 hitting their mark.

    As Bongino stated, what else was he supposed to do?

    I am not an LEO so I do not have a good frame of reference to judge what occurred, but I don't believe I would call him guilty of murder in these circumstances especially the little bit I know about furtive movements.

    If the cop who shot was suffering from Tunnel vision, even temporary blindness and auditory exclusion, it would be very easy to interpret the taser being discharged as a gun being discharged.

    From the time the man started to run and the shots fired, it was only a handful of seconds. Not a lot of time to make huge judgements of the situation where the perp had already assaulted both cops and stolen a taser, then used it on the cop in pursuit. I would think a good lawyer can make a case of justifiable homicide based on the physiology of combat and adrenaline surges.

    I will wait to see what they do in this case, but the mayor is selling these two cops out and hanging them to dry. I am not sure why anyone would want to be a cop any longer in this politically charged climate.
     
  5. flboots

    flboots Well-Known Member

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    My 2cents worth is he shot the man in the back. To me that said he was not a threat to the officers. Not knowing all the facts my conclusion is open to change.
     
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  6. SilasW

    SilasW Well-Known Member

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    My outlook is it was justifiable. Not sure how the taser was able to be take away from the LEO in the first place. He should never have let him get that close to begin with. That being said, the villain shot the taser with the intent of incapacitating the officer. Which would lead to access to his firearm and possible death for him or others. I'm sure the case will be made that the thug was only trying to get away (isn't every criminal?). But he didn't simply run away. He made an attempt to render the officer helpless and at the mercy of his attacker. Self defense and the bad guy lost.
     
  7. Designer

    Designer Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the "what else was he supposed to do?" camp along with Bongino.

    Unfortunately, some crime-fighting tools have been taken away from cops, so in this case, the cop was left with only his sidearm for a weapon. The danger to the cop was that if the perp managed to strike the officer with the taser, he would have then been able to approach the disabled cop and take his pistol, which then may have been used to murder the cop.

    Kind of muddy circumstances, but the perp was obviously dangerous and wanting to harm the cops, so it came down to shooting him. And a policeman has lost his job, and could be sued in civil court. Not a good situation at all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  8. ral357

    ral357 Well-Known Member

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    Valid point if he was alone, he was not. The guy was several yards away ...running away, had already discharged the taser and missed. Cops have a tuff job but this one is unjustified. A little towards the grey but its not there. There are thousands of interactions with police daily in this country. It only makes sense that some will not go in a way that a civilized people find acceptable. That number is NOT increasing. With cameras everywhere we are just seeing more. Of course there are thousands of videos out there that show the cops acting properly...but those don't fit the narrative.
     
  9. LIKTOSHOOT

    LIKTOSHOOT No Power Options Supporting Member

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    Fighting a cop for any weapon in his tool belt never turns out well.
    But this victim was a very nice person and had friends and family.
    HEY....lets burn down Wendy`s....just for fun. That redhead has to be mean.
     
  10. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    Of course we never see the entire sequence of events, but what little that was presented convinces me that it was a 'good shoot' (if there is ever a "Good Shoot")

    The person fleeing the scene assaulted the Officers and had wrestled a weapon from one of the Officers. Just prior to being shot, the fleeing suspect (now Felon for assaulting the Police Officers) turned and aimed/fired the Taser at the leading Officer. A Taser can cause serious physical damage if aimed at the upper body/head region - and that is what the fleeing felon did. Look at the footage and it is clear that the felon attempted to shoot the first Officer in the face.

    Both Officers are toast. Lily Livered Politicians and the Socialist Agenda News Media will ensure they are crucified in the 'court of public opinion'. You couldn't pay me enough to do the job that I once trained for in my youth. It is bad enough to risk your life to subdue someone in the line of duty - but when your Superiors and Political Leadership are against you and don't have the spine to back you up when you are doing the job THEY pay and train you to do - the 'difficult' becomes 'impossible'.
     
  11. gvw3

    gvw3 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I think the days are gone where a cop can just pull his gun and shoot someone due to his lack of skill in controlling an event such as this. This is a war between good and evil. I don't think these cops are evil but they were wrong in this shooting.
     
  12. Grizzly2

    Grizzly2 Well-Known Member

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    I hesitated for four years once concealed carry was finally legal in the last state to allow it. I was concerned that I would have the mental stability to not use deadly force unless absolutely necessary and then knowing how it would affect both families.

    William Munny: "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have." To a Christian, that means the man's chance of salvation someday.

    I can't imagine being in law enforcement and having to do that sort of thing day in and day out in today's insane, turned around way of thinking. What's right and what's wrong have been turned around and law enforcement is caught up right in the middle of this mess. Years ago, this would not have been an issue. Fleeing felons were shot and folks realized that reality. If they didn't, they learned the hard way. Today though, society has grown soft and weak, allowing for what we see today to become a crazy new normal. It's not right. On the other hand, I've never agreed with shooting someone who is fleeing in the back.

    What really irritates me is listening to lawyers and others who have access to the public's ear claiming that the police should have more control than is humanly possible. These folks can't even control their tongues and utter lies and untruths constantly, yet expect police to be perfect in their actions. Don't break the law and you won't put yourself and your family at risk and if you do, at least have enough training and common sense to not fight with the police.

    The problem is that today, that advise is not accepted and is not part of the new belief system in many parts of society.
     
  13. eastbanks

    eastbanks Well-Known Member

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    if you are drunk or druged up your mind is not working right and it has lead to this mess, no winners here all ways around. the time to fight the police is in COURT WITH YOUR LAWYER.
     
  14. Nor Cal Mikie

    Nor Cal Mikie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    WAY too easy to say. Like I heard on the news, go to court and work it out. Better than being dead!! But it'a ALL the Cops fault.:rolleyes::rolleyes: Where are we going and why are we in this hand basket?:oops:o_O
     
  15. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    Some years ago, my wife and I had land on the west side of Pike's Peak. She was called up for jury duty in a rape/homicide case. While interviewing for the jury panel, the defense lawyer presented what was to be the defense for the man accused of raping and murdering a young woman in Teller County, Colorado.

    The defense for his case was "incapacity due to drugs and alcohol". Under questioning, my wife stated that she believed that a person under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol was responsible for any actions they may have taken. Her reasoning was that the person who chose to imbibe drugs and alcohol did so knowingly, and therefore were responsible for their actions.

    Both the defense attorney AND the District Attorney were aghast that my wife held this view. They dismissed her from the jury selection. I was (and am still) proud of her for her convictions and her reasoning. It seems that this reasoning is outside of the accepted norms. Not to me or my wife, but at least it is to the Judicial and social system that governs us today.
     
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