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Discussion Starter #1
Over the past several years I have amassed a smallish collection of West German .25 acp semi-automatic pistols ("mouse guns"). They are all basically the same gun just with different names (importers?) such as PIC, Valor, Reck, Gecado and Hawes. Almost all of them have a 2-digit numerical stamping on the left side of the slide. This number is inside what looks to be a shield or badge shaped design. I have always thought this number to be the year of manufacture and others I have talked with about this think it is as well. My question is this; does anyone know where I could find confirmation that the number is in fact the year of manufacture? I know, I know....anyone can put anything on the internet. That does not make it true. I haven't found anything pertaining to these numbers on these guns. Any help?
 

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My .25ACP, unbeknownst to me when i purchased it was a "gunsmith special".it was 6 months before i found ammo. and discovered it had a broken firing pin. so i went searching year and model, manufactuer, ect. a year later, after looking through thousands of photos. Ive narrowed it down to the only gun that matched a MAB model A type 1. there was a disassembled image and it matched my gun perfectly except name of course since the same guns were made in different factories in different countries for the same company. there is no MAB markings on my gun some were made in spain and some in france. it simply says on one side of the slide, Pistolet Automatique Cal 6.35 "LE TIGRE" fabrique Francaise. It has no other markings except except the 3 digit serial # on the slide, frame, and barrel. identfying year of manufacter on these guns is difficult best ive come up with doing lots and lots of searching is a ball park X model made from 1903 to 1928 or X model type B from 1912 to 1940 and so on. I know this is probly not to helpful but i get your frustration, ecspecially if your searching for parts at all.
 

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Yes, many of these older pistols are almost impossible to nail down to a specific year of manufacture. My reason for wanting to know the YOM is to date them for Curio & Relic purposes. If they are at least 50 years old they qualify as a C&R per ATF.
 

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Yes, many of these older pistols are almost impossible to nail down to a specific year of manufacture. My reason for wanting to know the YOM is to date them for Curio & Relic purposes. If they are at least 50 years old they qualify as a C&R per ATF.
Ive never really thought about C&R. food for thought. i only own 4 guns that are less than 50 years old, my 9 mm, my rough rider .22 revolver, my AR15, and my Walmart special Hatsan .410. Old guns are my favorites especially old .22s, military, and revolvers.
 

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If the guns were not importable under GCA '68, then they are C&R.
Unfortunately, I believe those die cast zinc guns were made into the 1970s.
 

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But how do you know with certainty that a particular brand/model of gun was banned by the '68 GCA? I know that the GCA prohibits certain guns in regards to size, features, etc., but it does not name specific guns by name or model. And Mr. DeShives, you are correct in that some of these little guns were manufactured into the 70's which takes me back to my original question. Is the 2-digit numerical stamping on most all of these guns actually the year of manufacture and if so, is that documented somewhere? I may be overthinking this question, but what I have run into is some sellers will not sell an old gun as a Curio & Relic unless there is proof that it is at least 50 years old (or on the C&R list by name).
 

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I guess we don't know with certainty about those guns.
Guns like Baby Brownings, Astra Cubs, Galesis and other well known brands were certainly banned.
I doubt there is any real certification about the numbering of these guns. Most FFLs would not risk their license and fines for selling something as C&R if there is any doubt.
You could send a letter to BATF requesting classification of specific pistols.
 
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