What about this.....

Discussion in 'Large-Bore/Small-Bore Rifle/Shotgun' started by Zigzag2, Feb 27, 2003.

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  1. Zigzag2

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    ElmersFudd
    Member
    Posts: 29
    (12/18/01 8:53:53 pm)
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    LTS-

    You seem to have a handle on the pre/post ban issues.

    Concerning assault rifles, AK, AR, etc: Now forget about the bayonet lug, flash suppresor, collapsible stock, etc., what component(s) create the major issues concerning pre/post, is it just the serialized receiver ?

    Is the receiver the component that makes a pile of assembled parts into a gun regulated by ATF ?

    Suppose that for whatever reason, I decide to make my own receiver ? Is this legal ? Could I have someone else make it for me ?

    If it's legal, what are the rules ? Can I sell it ? Make more ? Buy a parts set and make an AR, AK or even a 50 BMG, etc ?

    I guess I'm not sure what else to ask you - I have an understanding that making a receiver is legal, that it does *not* create a nexus between me and the ATF, does not have to be registered, but that I have to make it and it's mine for life, not even to be left to an heir.

    Help me out here you waskle

    Anyone, jump right in here

    AntiqueDr
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1560
    (12/18/01 9:09:49 pm)
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    Re: What about this.....
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    The receiver is the firearm. Everything else is just an attachment. The ATF in its infinite wisdom has decreed that certain combinations of attachments are illegal.

    You may legally make a firearm for your own use. You may NOT legally make an "assault weapon" as defined under current stature. Therefore, were you to build a parts kit from an unfinished receiver, you could not have a detachable magazine and more than two of the evil features, plus you would have to have a minimum number of US mfg parts.

    Now, if someone else builds it for you, or if you build it to sell to anyone else, or if you build a certain number, you may fall into the category of "Manufacturer" which requires an ATF license.
    We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
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    ElmersFudd
    Member
    Posts: 31
    (12/18/01 10:23:54 pm)
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    The detachable mag, that is an evil part ? I'm not sure I followed you there.

    If I made only the receiver, (can it have a detachable mag), and then if I bought a kit, every part right down to the last spring and screw, for my own use, is that legal ?

    Specifically an AR or AK receiver.

    I found a 50% finished rec'vr on GB. The seller says he bought 2 Armalite/Eagle AR10's, one an A2 and one an A4, sold the rec'vrs from them both, (after carefully measuring them), made himself 2 new rec'vrs and now has a 3rd 50% one for sale. Says his guns, based on his rec'vrs are legal and unregistered because the original receivers went away. His rec'vrs use the Armalite/Eagle uppers (.308) and have detachable mags and all of the other AR10 features.

    You can see them here.

    www.geocities.com/ar4ever2/

    Now what ? This does get confusing

    Edited by: ElmersFudd at: 12/18/01 10:26:13 pm

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 3177
    (12/19/01 10:11:49 am)
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    I have my doubts, that this guy made these. The milling equipment alone for this type of work....is high dollar. If in fact he is making these, I`m with Doc....there could be a problem, depending on how many he has produced. Plus, this 50% crud is just that....unless you have the same equipment, your out of luck finishing it up. You would need a vertical mill and some other things too. I have seen receiver castings/forgings for these, that are simply a solid block in the rough form of a receiver (shape) and it then has to be milled completely for a complete working receiver. If you have the equipment, I would buy a rough casting....about $50.00 and do it from the start. This is a gray area in the firearms building, because the receiver is the gun, regardless of whether it has a barrel or any other attachment. It is true that you can build your own gun, but the laws are just as strange and tangled as the legalease for the rest. As long as it is built to follow the assualt weapon definitions you should be fine....if you persue it. Just remember, should at sometime in the future....the law enforcement come into contact with this homemade rifle and it contains no markings or serial number, it will be your dollars defending your kiester to prove the law was?/is? on your side. LTS
    Every Day........

    AntiqueDr
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1566
    (12/19/01 11:39:35 am)
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    Re: What about this.....
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    As long as he does not sell a finished rifle or a finished receiver, the guy is within the law. It is legal for an individual to manufacture a receiver for his own use.

    An individual can neither manufacture nor assemble an "assault weapon" as defined under 18 USC 922 for any purpose, nor can an "assault weapon" be assembled using wholly foreign parts.

    These 50% receivers are not usable as is, therefore they can be sold. If you bought one, you could finish the machinework and build an AR-10 or AR-15 type rifle PROVIDED you stayed within the assault weapon guidelines. In other words, if the gun has a detachable magazine, it can have no more than two evil features (folding stock, pistol grip, bayonet mount, flash suppressor, grenade launcher).

    If you ever attempted to sell the firearm, you would be in violation of the law requiring licensing of manufacturers, and subsequent serialization of firearms.

    At least that's the way I read it...
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    ElmersFudd
    Member
    Posts: 32
    (12/19/01 1:36:22 pm)
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    Ok, I follow most of this.

    LTS, the guy says he has been a machinist for 18 years, ok.
    He probably knows how then. My friend in Detroit that could finish one of these has all of the equipment needed and he has a *small* shop. So it can be done.

    DR, you lost me with...

    "An individual can neither manufacture nor assemble an "assault weapon" as defined under 18 USC 922 for any purpose, nor can an "assault weapon" be assembled using wholly foreign parts."

    and then you say...

    "...you could finish the machinework and build an AR-10 or AR-15 type rifle PROVIDED you stayed within the assault weapon guidelines."

    counfusion....






    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 3182
    (12/19/01 1:50:27 pm)
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    Fudd, what Doc is saying is simple. If you build one it must be in line with the legal lines. It cannot have a flash-hider, tele-stock, bayonet lug, threaded muzzle (unless a permanent muzzle-brake[approved] is attached). It can accept detachable mags and have a pistol grip (depending on your States laws....not federal) Since most of the parts for this style rifle are most likely US parts that is covered in the part content of the rifle to make it even more-so legal. You simply cannot add any of the evil features beyond the pistol grip and detachable mag. But I will re-warn you again. If law enforcement comes into contact with a firearm with no markings or serial number, it will be on your shoulders to prove your case....legal or not, this could cause some big problems if it happened. Just keep that in mind. I don`t risk much anymore when it`s my dollar vs the free government dollar, it can ruin your life even if you are innocent. JMHO.
    Every Day........

    ElmersFudd
    Member
    Posts: 33
    (12/19/01 2:05:47 pm)
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    duh, I think I finally got it.........maybe.......well.... could be....I think

    thanks you waskle's
     
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