The Firearms Forum banner

21 - 40 of 59 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,751 Posts
Beware!
There are holy Angels and very dangerous Angels(Demons---fallen Angels!)
Satan was a Cherub before the Fall, if I recollect correctly. I don't keep up on this stuff other than to thank my Guardian Angel
There are 7 cohorts of Angels, plus Thrones, Nations, and Dominions.

I saw a Demon once, in a hospital where I was ministering to the dying.
I'll leave it at that.
You are so right. I married one once. I will leave it at that as well.
 

·
TFF Chaplain
Joined
·
18,853 Posts
I'll respectfully take exception to this for God created the Angels, therefore they are aeviternal (did I get the spelling right?) To be eternal, Angels would have had to have no beginning.
You are correct. I sit corrected!!:oops::rolleyes:

God created them so they have a starting point. God is the only eternal being because He has no starting point. He has always been.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
426 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Do we who were created have eternal life with God after we die? Does being eternal rule out having a beginning or does it mean that it will never end?
 

·
TFF Chaplain
Joined
·
18,853 Posts
Good questions.
Do we who were created have eternal life with God after we die?
Far as I can tell, God says in the Bible that humans have souls. Our souls (the "real us") go on existing after our bodies die. People who are Christians will have eternal life with God. People who are not Christians will spend eternity in hell. One passage that comes to mind is what Jesus said in Matthew 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

God says in 1 John 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

So God has put it down for the record. Whoever has the Son has eternal life and will spend eternity in heaven with God. Whoever does not have the Son (Jesus) does not have this eternal life with God and will spend eternity in hell.

If that sounds harsh, God is a righteous, holy God who cannot allow sin into His Heaven. You know how it goes. The US decides what people it wants to come into the country and who it wants to keep out. You decide who you do and do not want coming into your home. People have the choice to receive Christ while their bodies are alive here on earth, or reject Him.

John 1 describes that choice people make this way: 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

Some people rejected Jesus; but "as many as received Him"--those who chose to receive Him--become God's children--Christians.

So the bottom line is this: each of us comes up to that decision. Will we receive Jesus into our lives, and let Him live in us, take charge of our lives, or will we decide to reject Him?

We receive Jesus into our lives by inviting Him in. We pray something like "God, I'm sorry for my sins. Will You please forgive me? Will You come into my life and take over running my life? Thank You. In Jesus' Name, Amen."

That's a start. There's a lot more could be said, and others will help elaborate on this.

Does being eternal rule out having a beginning or does it mean that it will never end?
For us, eternal life means that it will never end.

Now, here's something to think about. Our lives started when we were conceived. We started counting days and years of age once we were born. But God says this in Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will.

God knew us before the foundation of the world. Before He created anything in Genesis 1, He had our names down in His book.

If you want a longer read that discusses eternal life and how we get it, check out 1 Corinthians 15. See what you think, and come back with questions.

Hope that helps, my friend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,751 Posts
Do we who were created have eternal life with God after we die? Does being eternal rule out having a beginning or does it mean that it will never end?
The soul is eternal and will spend eternity either in Heaven or in Hell. We are made in the image of God who is eternal so it should be no surprise that our soul, the very essence of our personhood, is also eternal. (the Bible mentions nothing about any place called Purgatory. That is a doctrine of men)

In Hell, the soul is ever dying but never able to die, this is called the second death.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Revelation 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is only Heaven and Hell after we pass from this earth. In Luke 16, Abraham tells the "rich man" who lift up his eyes in hell as soon as he died, and tells him that you cannot pass between paradise and hell because there is a great gulf fixed between and no one can pass from one to the other.

Luke 16: 23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Once you have breathed your last breath, eternity comes upon us whether in Heaven or in Hell.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
We are comprised of two parts---body and soul---as we were created. The body without a soul is not complete, nor is a soul without a body complete, at least according to what I've read regarding the Resurrection. In this life, body and soul are imperfect and broken because of the Fall. After our Resurrection we should be perfected.
But getting back on topic, Angels---the good 'uns---are perfected spiritual beings. They don't have bodies however they can assume bodily disguises. My Bible and the Orthodox Bible contain the Book of Tobit, which deals with Raphael's assumption of a disguise. What sort of disguise depends on how God wants the angel to be perceived, if at all. There are a few accounts of medical corpsmen coming to the aid of wounded soldiers when it was established that no corpsmen we in the vicinity. Angels? I'll leave that to you.
OTOH there are accounts of angels resembling classical works of Art which are quite intimidating---hence "be not afraid" is a catch phrase when angels make an appearance in the Bible.
This is an important concept because angels are pure spirit (or if you will, pure energy,) with no physical body.
If it helps, consider a radio wave---an over simplification but perhaps valuable for illustration.
Angels are messengers--"angel" means "messenger" and it has long been accepted that when God talks to you, it most likely is through one of his messengers.
You can consider it in this way----a General (God)gives an order. The Captain (you) receives the order from, say a radio (angel.)
The order is God's, however the order like the energy in radio waves, is manifest through an angel. Why? God's choice. Maybe direct orders from God would spell the end for our failed human circuitry?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,309 Posts
Hmmm, not so sure angels are “perfected”. Could be I suppose but if they are there’s no mention of it in the Bible I’ve ever read. With that said I believe they still have the freedom to choose evil as did the 1/3 that have already fallen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Hmmm, not so sure angels are “perfected”. Could be I suppose but if they are there’s no mention of it in the Bible I’ve ever read. With that said I believe they still have the freedom to choose evil as did the 1/3 that have already fallen.
Angels behold the beatific vision, so would they choose evil? Could they choose evil?
The 1/3 who did followed Satan had free will, just like us(which perhaps is why we have such a talent for following Satan!)
If we beheld the beatific vision would we be able to deny God even with our Free Will?
Our Free Will seeks out happiness. With no vanity to confuse it, I don't think so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,751 Posts
Hmmm, not so sure angels are “perfected”. Could be I suppose but if they are there’s no mention of it in the Bible I’ve ever read. With that said I believe they still have the freedom to choose evil as did the 1/3 that have already fallen.
True, that is what the Bible states but angels once fallen have no means of redemption since they have a spiritual body and not physical.

Death for man is called a curse and is the dreaded event we all fear in this life, but it paradoxically allows for the ransom paid by Jesus to redeem us from our sins. The angels wish that they could have such a thing.

I Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

I Peter 1: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,751 Posts
Angels behold the beatific vision, so would they choose evil? Could they choose evil?
The 1/3 who did followed Satan had free will, just like us(which perhaps is why we have such a talent for following Satan!)
If we beheld the beatific vision would we be able to deny God even with our Free Will?
Our Free Will seeks out happiness. With no vanity to confuse it, I don't think so.
Sorry, but the Bible does not support that view. Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden and saw Him face to face many, many times, each and every day. Yet, they departed from God and fell into sin.

Balaam spoke with God and was a prophet of God yet he fell to the temptation of filthy lucre.

Moses talked to God face to face and the face of Moses shown so bright that he had to cover his face with a veil when speaking to the people. Yet Moses sinned when he struck the rock instead of speaking to it to bring forth water.

Indeed the entire nation of Israel observed the signs and wonders in Egypt yet they still walked away from God in the wilderness.

Lucifer was lifted up by pride and he was the anointed cherub covering the throne of God.

Sadly, the Bible is replete with examples of angels and people who saw the Lord face to face and still sinned against Him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
426 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
I'll respectfully take exception to this for God created the Angels, therefore they are aeviternal (did I get the spelling right?) To be eternal, Angels would have had to have no beginning.
Back to my question. We are assured of eternal life through Jesus even though we were created and have a beginning. That does not seem to mesh with Hovannes statement. If only God is eternal because He had no beginning and has no end, is our spiritual afterlife eternal?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,751 Posts
Back to my question. We are assured of eternal life through Jesus even though we were created and have a beginning. That does not seem to mesh with Hovannes statement. If only God is eternal because He had no beginning and has no end, is our spiritual afterlife eternal?
You REALLY need to be careful looking at what the Bible states and what man states through different theologies. I don't study theology except to see where they have strayed in any given commentary.

The Bible is clear, God created man immortal but left him the promise that he would die on the "day" he sinned. We find that is true when you take into consideration II Peter 3:8:

II Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

While Adam and Eve did not die in that 24 hour day that they sinned, not one man has lived more than 1000 years. In the context of II Peter 3:8, man did indeed die in that day in which he sinned. But man was NOT mortal when God first created him. Death is part of the curse from the sin of Adam and Eve.

Jesus has conquered sin, and He has overcome death and hell when He died on the cross at Calvary.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Revelation 20: 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I Corinthians 15: 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 and if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. . .

. . . 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Back to my question. We are assured of eternal life through Jesus even though we were created and have a beginning. That does not seem to mesh with Hovannes statement. If only God is eternal because He had no beginning and has no end, is our spiritual afterlife eternal?
Look up the word eternal and decide for yourself
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
5 Types of angels in the Bible:

ARCHANGELS
The word arch means, “Chief.” This gives us the idea that there is ranking or classes of angels in heaven. (Colossians 1:16-17, Ephesians 3:9-10)

CHERUBIM
And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the sole of a calf’s foot. And they sparkled like burnished bronze. Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. And the four had their faces and their wings thus: their wings touched one another.
Each one of them went straight forward, without turning as they went. As for the likeness of their faces, each had a human face. The four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle. Ezekiel 1

SERAPHIM
These angels are all about the presence of God. They fly around the throne room of God declaring the holiness of God.
According, to the Strong’s Concordance Saraph are described as – “Burning.” These angels are on fire, worshipping the God the All-consuming Fire!
These majestic beings with 6 wings, human hands or voices in attendance upon God.
(This is where we get the lines: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. The whole Earth is full of His glory.” As this supposedly what they say over and over in praise of God.) Isaiah 6:1-8

THE LIVING CREATURES
These angels are also known as “living beasts” or “the four beasts.” They minister by worshipping and glorifying God.
In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front, and in back. The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: “‘Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty,’ who was, and is, and is to come.”
Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, -Revelation 4:6-9


COMMON ANGELS
This may seem like a broad way to categorize angels, but these angels don’t seem to fall into an angelic type or rank. This doesn’t mean they are not powerful beings. They still work for God.
Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it. Hebrews 13:2


—————————————

My own ancestry (“Angelici”) was an ancient 3rd Century sect that was said to revere angels near the point of idolatry. (Our family Coat of Arms is a flying angel carrying a sword in each hand.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelici_(sect)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
426 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
"but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

This would mean that God is not the only eternal being since He has given us the gift of eternal life through Christ. The angels, therefore, are not denied eternity just because they, like us, were created by God. Eternal beings can have a beginning while not having an end.

That is not the same as what was written above that God is the only eternal being because he had no beginning and will have no end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Sorry, but the Bible does not support that view. Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden and saw Him face to face many, many times, each and every day. Yet, they departed from God and fell into sin.

Balaam spoke with God and was a prophet of God yet he fell to the temptation of filthy lucre.

Moses talked to God face to face and the face of Moses shown so bright that he had to cover his face with a veil when speaking to the people. Yet Moses sinned when he struck the rock instead of speaking to it to bring forth water.

Indeed the entire nation of Israel observed the signs and wonders in Egypt yet they still walked away from God in the wilderness.

Lucifer was lifted up by pride and he was the anointed cherub covering the throne of God.

Sadly, the Bible is replete with examples of angels and people who saw the Lord face to face and still sinned against Him.
True enough, mankind does a very good job at forgetting about God. That is why memory is so important "Do this in memory of me." Luke 22:19, 1 Corinthians 11:24
As to why Adam and Eve fell from Grace, it is thought to be the same reason Satan fell from Grace----Pride!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,751 Posts
"but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

This would mean that God is not the only eternal being since He has given us the gift of eternal life through Christ. The angels, therefore, are not denied eternity just because they, like us, were created by God. Eternal beings can have a beginning while not having an end.

That is not the same as what was written above that God is the only eternal being because he had no beginning and will have no end.
Not sure how you have derived this. God is indeed the ONLY being without a beginning but He created men and angels to live forever with Him until sin intervened.

God is eternal with no beginning and no end, but He created us in HIS image. We have a beginning. Our physical bodies at this time are mortal, but were not mortal when He first created us. But flesh and blood shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Only those who are born-again shall see the kingdom of Heaven in a spiritual body as the angels are.

Angels and men are created beings with a beginning.

Angels that remain faithful unto God shall remain with Him in Heaven for all eternity.

Angels that fell from grace shall suffer for all eternity in Hell.

The Bible is very clear on all of these things.

The Bible does not say that only God is eternal now. But God has NO beginning. His name He gave to Moses was I am that I am. That comes from the word, TO BE. So, yes, God is the only being of eternity past but not of eternity future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
Not sure how you have derived this. God is indeed the ONLY being without a beginning but He created men and angels to live forever with Him until sin intervened.

God is eternal with no beginning and no end, but He created us in HIS image. We have a beginning. Our physical bodies at this time are mortal, but were not mortal when He first created us. But flesh and blood shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Only those who are born-again shall see the kingdom of Heaven in a spiritual body as the angels are.

Angels and men are created beings with a beginning.

Angels that remain faithful unto God shall remain with Him in Heaven for all eternity.

Angels that fell from grace shall suffer for all eternity in Hell.

The Bible is very clear on all of these things.

The Bible does not say that only God is eternal now. But God has NO beginning. His name He gave to Moses was I am that I am. That comes from the word, TO BE. So, yes, God is the only being of eternity past but not of eternity future.

Men
Except that eternity is not the correct word in English, or Latin.
Aeviternal
Everlasting, endless, especially with reference to future duration
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,751 Posts
Except that eternity is not the correct word in English, or Latin.
Aeviternal
Everlasting, endless, especially with reference to future duration
Never heard that eternity is not in the Bible.


ETER'NITY, noun [Latin oeternitas.] Duration or continuance without beginning or end.

By repeating the idea of any length of duration, with the endless addition of number, we come by the idea of eternity

The high and lofty one who inhabiteth eternity Isaiah 57:15.

We speak of eternal duration preceding the present time. God has existed from eternity We also speak of endless or everlasting duration in future, and dating from present time or the present state of things. Some men doubt the eternity of future punishment, though they have less difficulty in admitting the eternity of future rewards.

http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Eternity

ETER'NAL, adjective [Latin oeternus, composed of oevum and ternus, oeviternus, Varro. The origin of the last component part of the word is not obvious. It occurs in diuturnus, and seems to denote continuance.]

1. Without beginning or end of existence.

The eternal God is thy refuge. Deuteronomy 33:27.

2. Without beginning of existence.

To know whether there is any real being, whose duration has been eternal

3. Without end of existence or duration; everlasting; endless; immortal.

That they may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10.

What shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Matthew 19:16.

Suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7.

4. Perpetual; ceaseless; continued without intermission.

And fires eternal in thy temple shine.

5. Unchangeable; existing at all times without change; as eternaltruth.

ETER'NAL, noun An appellation of God.

http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/eternal

Here are all of the places in Scripture where the Bible has the word eternity.

http://www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=eternal&t=KJV&sf=5
 
21 - 40 of 59 Posts
Top