G
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·Ox
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Posts: 4
(2/16/03 12:26:35 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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After reading Guns and Ammo's review of the Springfield XD I am planning on buying one. This is my first handgun purchase. I am planning on buying the 5" tactical version. The gun will be for home defense and target shooting. Should I go with the .357 SIG or the .40 S&W, and can you please explain why? Thanks in advance.
Randy
seven 62
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Posts: 9
(2/16/03 3:23:09 am)
Reply | Edit | Del .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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Good Choice! I personally would go with the .40 Smith because it is bigger bore and a little less penetrating.
You get the same number of rounds in the gun, I believe, and I live in a residential. Overpenetration is an issue in my surroundings. I'd sure hate to shoot into a house nearby.
However, everyone's situation is unique. Don't just take my word for it.
Good luck!
Shoot well
7.62
denfoote
Member
Posts: 6
(2/17/03 4:13:05 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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I'm not enamoured with the HS2000/XD. So, I'll tell you how I solved the problem. I got a Glock 29 (10mm) and bought a .40S&W conversion barrel for it. I also, if desired, can purchase a .357SIG barrel. I now would have three guns in one!!!!
Glocks may come and Glocks may go, but Walther endures forever!!
sig230
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Posts: 40
(2/17/03 11:40:54 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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Love my HS2000 and it's been totally reliable. But I have a very low opinion of 40S&W. IMHO, EVERY other round available is a better choice than 40S&W.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
75BDdude
Member
Posts: 26
(2/19/03 2:41:49 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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If this is a first pistol as you stated, I'd suggest going with the .40 instead of the .357 Sig. The Sig has a significant bark, yet isn't any more powerful than the .40, depending on how you measure it. The .40 can drive larger, heavier bullets as fast or faster than the Sig and the ammo is generally cheaper and easier to find for the .40. Based on this, that would be m suggestion to you. Good luck and happy shooting with whatever you choose !!!
sig230
Member
Posts: 41
(2/20/03 10:25:23 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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Since this is your first handgun I strongly suggest that you skip the 40S&W. Frankly, 40S&W has the smallest safety margin of any caliber I know of. After you gain some experience with handguns and handgun maintenance, with the potential problems that might come up and how to avoid them, then, if you want, give the 40S&W a try.
One other thing to consider though is that there is really very little difference in performance between 9mm, 40S&W, 357 SiG or even 45acp. The biggest difference is that the 9mm is far less expensive. That means more money for ammo, range time and instructions.
On the XD, I've had one of the HS2000s (what it was called before Springfield became the distributor) since they first hit the shelves and it's been absolutely fantastic. A Great, Great, World Class handgun and still grossly underpriced.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
75BDdude
Member
Posts: 27
(2/20/03 11:21:36 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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Can you elaborate on what you mean about the .40 having the smallest safety margin out there? Not sure what you mean..... Thanks!!!
MPinkston
Member
Posts: 43
(2/21/03 10:24:25 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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The S&W 40's "small safety margin" may refer to bullet seating. Ammo makers tend to load the 40 down from it's true potential because if the bullet is not seated at the perfect depth, it can increase chamber presure way beyond what the pistol is rated for, possibly causing a kaboom. As a 357sig (Glock M33) owner, I'm here to tell you that this cartridge comes mighty close to the overall performance of the 357 Magnum which is so famous for it's "one shot stop" capabilities. However, the 357sig round in a small framed gun (such as a model 33) is a handful. (pun intended)
[email protected]
75BDdude
Member
Posts: 28
(2/21/03 11:56:21 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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I owned a Glock 31 shortly. A friend of mine was moving and had to sell, So I got a great deal on it. Then my other buddy just HAD to have it, so I sold it to him. I still get to shoot it too!! Dang nice gun.
Actually, the .40 ballistically outperforms the .357Sig according to all my published re-loading data. It drives like-weighted bullets at the same speed or faster than the Sig, but is larger in diameter, and it can drive heavier bullets as well. I only know this because I researched this extensively before buying the Glock 31.
I currently own, or have owned, the .357 Sig, a .40S&W, and the .357 Mag. Among many others..
It really isn't THAT close to the .357 Mag. If you live in Phoenix we can go to the range and shoot the Glock side by side with my Ruger GP-100 !!! That's an eye opener!!
I'm not trying to flame anybody, just trying to clear both sides. The .357 Mag claims were marketing hype that they actually softened considerably by the time the pistols and ammo were actually available to the public. And I'm NOT a .357 Sig hater!!! I love that cartridge! It is awesome in that it does provide the performance that it delivers in such a small package, in some very nice firearms. And most .40 cal or .357Sig pistols can be converted to the other cartridge with a simple barrel swap. That's versatility as well.
But to get back to the original post. The question was asked if one had to choose between the .357 Sig and the .40, as a NEW pistol owner, which should he choose and WHY. Several people have posted their opinions, including me. But it has been stated that the .40 is considered unsafe , but there was no supporting information. That was the source of my follow-up question.
75BDdude
Member
Posts: 29
(2/21/03 12:14:55 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Clarification
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Just to clarify, my statements about cartridge performance are based on reloading data. In otherwords, that is how the cartridges potential stacks up if you reload. If you don't, then the .357 Sig factory ammo really out-classes most .40 ammo due to the current lethargic factory loadings of the .40. Of course, you could always get factory loaded high pefromance ammo from Cor-Bon and others. But it's pricey.
Anyway, I've been extremely long winded and I hope I haven't offended anyone with my observations.
docreg
Member
Posts: 15
(2/22/03 1:13:43 am)
Reply | Edit | Del What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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SIG 230,
What you been smoking?
How do you possibly equate the .40SW, the .45ACP, and the SIG.357 to a 9MM?
I would sure like to see the published data you based THAT opinion on.
Doc Reg
CCW Instructor
NRA INstructor
kmad61
Member
Posts: 3
(2/23/03 1:02:47 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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I have the Springfield XD in 9mm.this is a great gun and if you load it with the right ammo(Federal 115+p+)there is no need to go to a larger caliber.The hot 9mm is equal to the 40 and the 45 in stopping power,That is a proven fact.
EvilAudio
Member
Posts: 27
(2/23/03 6:01:36 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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sig230: I have a feeling you buy into alot of the misinformation that is floating around in the general gun media about 9mm vs 40S&W. The 9mm is a underpowered round that fails to transfer it's energy to it's target and tends to overpenetrate, even in +p and +p+ loads. Period. (this could also be said abouot the .357Sig to a degree)
Quit beleiving all the schysters who try to talk the 9mm up to justify it's use in the military and police. The reason it is so popular amongst LE and Military units is because of incompetent shooters and the ease of reducing the learning curve of them.
kmad61: "The hot 9mm is equal to the 40 and the 45 in stopping power,That is a proven fact."
I don't know who proved this "fact" but you must be referring to some magical 9mm that I have yet to run across. A hot 9mm is merely a projectile that overpenetrates at a greater margin than that of a normal 9mm. You can have the biggest baddest loaded 9 you want, but if it doesn't transfer it's energy to it's target, you have one pissed off assailant. Pray he isn't packing a .40 or .45 loaded with Silvertips.
"If a tie is like kissing your sister, losing is like kissing your grandmother with her teeth out." George Brett
kmad61
Member
Posts: 4
(2/24/03 11:00:37 am)
Reply | Edit | Del re:
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I feel very comfortable with my Springfield XD9 with 9mm+P+ ammo.The Federal load has 431ftlbs and a 91% stop ratio compared to the 40sw 180gr Winchester Ranger at 392 ftlbs and a 88% stop ratio.The 9mm,40,and 45 are all good calibers,and you should feel very well armed with any of these,especially with the load selection availible today..
docreg
Member
Posts: 18
(2/24/03 1:34:08 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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EvilAudio,
Amen!! I literally could not have said it better!
Doc Reg
75BDdude
Member
Posts: 30
(2/24/03 10:12:02 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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These types of topics always seem to get some serious discussion time don't they!?!?!
Personally I own a couple 9mm's, a .40, a couple .45's and several other pistols in calibers not mentioned here. I carry the 9's, .40's or .45's at different times for different reasons and never feel under-gunned. Part of my confidence in my current 9mm stable is due to the fact they are both CZ's. (I got rid of my other 9's after buying my first CZ) The way I look at it, I can decide which eye socket to aim for on an assailant with these baby's!!! They are both that accurate. My old modified Cold Gold Cup couldn't keep up with these two pistols. Plus, if the first round doesn't give the dude a big enough "owie", then there's 14 more where that one came from.... 14 more quickly and accurately. But I consider the 9mm about the starting point in realistic stopping power. I wouldn't consider anything smaller for myslelf. But that's personal opinion.
I guess what it boils down to is get what you can learn to shoot WELL..... and learn to shoot it well. Then hope to the good Lord you never have to use it to defend yourself or a loved one.
Member
Posts: 4
(2/16/03 12:26:35 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After reading Guns and Ammo's review of the Springfield XD I am planning on buying one. This is my first handgun purchase. I am planning on buying the 5" tactical version. The gun will be for home defense and target shooting. Should I go with the .357 SIG or the .40 S&W, and can you please explain why? Thanks in advance.
Randy
seven 62
Member
Posts: 9
(2/16/03 3:23:09 am)
Reply | Edit | Del .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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Good Choice! I personally would go with the .40 Smith because it is bigger bore and a little less penetrating.
You get the same number of rounds in the gun, I believe, and I live in a residential. Overpenetration is an issue in my surroundings. I'd sure hate to shoot into a house nearby.
However, everyone's situation is unique. Don't just take my word for it.
Good luck!
Shoot well
7.62
denfoote
Member
Posts: 6
(2/17/03 4:13:05 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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I'm not enamoured with the HS2000/XD. So, I'll tell you how I solved the problem. I got a Glock 29 (10mm) and bought a .40S&W conversion barrel for it. I also, if desired, can purchase a .357SIG barrel. I now would have three guns in one!!!!
Glocks may come and Glocks may go, but Walther endures forever!!
sig230
Member
Posts: 40
(2/17/03 11:40:54 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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Love my HS2000 and it's been totally reliable. But I have a very low opinion of 40S&W. IMHO, EVERY other round available is a better choice than 40S&W.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
75BDdude
Member
Posts: 26
(2/19/03 2:41:49 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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If this is a first pistol as you stated, I'd suggest going with the .40 instead of the .357 Sig. The Sig has a significant bark, yet isn't any more powerful than the .40, depending on how you measure it. The .40 can drive larger, heavier bullets as fast or faster than the Sig and the ammo is generally cheaper and easier to find for the .40. Based on this, that would be m suggestion to you. Good luck and happy shooting with whatever you choose !!!
sig230
Member
Posts: 41
(2/20/03 10:25:23 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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Since this is your first handgun I strongly suggest that you skip the 40S&W. Frankly, 40S&W has the smallest safety margin of any caliber I know of. After you gain some experience with handguns and handgun maintenance, with the potential problems that might come up and how to avoid them, then, if you want, give the 40S&W a try.
One other thing to consider though is that there is really very little difference in performance between 9mm, 40S&W, 357 SiG or even 45acp. The biggest difference is that the 9mm is far less expensive. That means more money for ammo, range time and instructions.
On the XD, I've had one of the HS2000s (what it was called before Springfield became the distributor) since they first hit the shelves and it's been absolutely fantastic. A Great, Great, World Class handgun and still grossly underpriced.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
75BDdude
Member
Posts: 27
(2/20/03 11:21:36 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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Can you elaborate on what you mean about the .40 having the smallest safety margin out there? Not sure what you mean..... Thanks!!!
MPinkston
Member
Posts: 43
(2/21/03 10:24:25 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The S&W 40's "small safety margin" may refer to bullet seating. Ammo makers tend to load the 40 down from it's true potential because if the bullet is not seated at the perfect depth, it can increase chamber presure way beyond what the pistol is rated for, possibly causing a kaboom. As a 357sig (Glock M33) owner, I'm here to tell you that this cartridge comes mighty close to the overall performance of the 357 Magnum which is so famous for it's "one shot stop" capabilities. However, the 357sig round in a small framed gun (such as a model 33) is a handful. (pun intended)
[email protected]
75BDdude
Member
Posts: 28
(2/21/03 11:56:21 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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I owned a Glock 31 shortly. A friend of mine was moving and had to sell, So I got a great deal on it. Then my other buddy just HAD to have it, so I sold it to him. I still get to shoot it too!! Dang nice gun.
Actually, the .40 ballistically outperforms the .357Sig according to all my published re-loading data. It drives like-weighted bullets at the same speed or faster than the Sig, but is larger in diameter, and it can drive heavier bullets as well. I only know this because I researched this extensively before buying the Glock 31.
I currently own, or have owned, the .357 Sig, a .40S&W, and the .357 Mag. Among many others..
It really isn't THAT close to the .357 Mag. If you live in Phoenix we can go to the range and shoot the Glock side by side with my Ruger GP-100 !!! That's an eye opener!!
I'm not trying to flame anybody, just trying to clear both sides. The .357 Mag claims were marketing hype that they actually softened considerably by the time the pistols and ammo were actually available to the public. And I'm NOT a .357 Sig hater!!! I love that cartridge! It is awesome in that it does provide the performance that it delivers in such a small package, in some very nice firearms. And most .40 cal or .357Sig pistols can be converted to the other cartridge with a simple barrel swap. That's versatility as well.
But to get back to the original post. The question was asked if one had to choose between the .357 Sig and the .40, as a NEW pistol owner, which should he choose and WHY. Several people have posted their opinions, including me. But it has been stated that the .40 is considered unsafe , but there was no supporting information. That was the source of my follow-up question.
75BDdude
Member
Posts: 29
(2/21/03 12:14:55 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Clarification
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to clarify, my statements about cartridge performance are based on reloading data. In otherwords, that is how the cartridges potential stacks up if you reload. If you don't, then the .357 Sig factory ammo really out-classes most .40 ammo due to the current lethargic factory loadings of the .40. Of course, you could always get factory loaded high pefromance ammo from Cor-Bon and others. But it's pricey.
Anyway, I've been extremely long winded and I hope I haven't offended anyone with my observations.
docreg
Member
Posts: 15
(2/22/03 1:13:43 am)
Reply | Edit | Del What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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SIG 230,
What you been smoking?
How do you possibly equate the .40SW, the .45ACP, and the SIG.357 to a 9MM?
I would sure like to see the published data you based THAT opinion on.
Doc Reg
CCW Instructor
NRA INstructor
kmad61
Member
Posts: 3
(2/23/03 1:02:47 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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I have the Springfield XD in 9mm.this is a great gun and if you load it with the right ammo(Federal 115+p+)there is no need to go to a larger caliber.The hot 9mm is equal to the 40 and the 45 in stopping power,That is a proven fact.
EvilAudio
Member
Posts: 27
(2/23/03 6:01:36 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sig230: I have a feeling you buy into alot of the misinformation that is floating around in the general gun media about 9mm vs 40S&W. The 9mm is a underpowered round that fails to transfer it's energy to it's target and tends to overpenetrate, even in +p and +p+ loads. Period. (this could also be said abouot the .357Sig to a degree)
Quit beleiving all the schysters who try to talk the 9mm up to justify it's use in the military and police. The reason it is so popular amongst LE and Military units is because of incompetent shooters and the ease of reducing the learning curve of them.
kmad61: "The hot 9mm is equal to the 40 and the 45 in stopping power,That is a proven fact."
I don't know who proved this "fact" but you must be referring to some magical 9mm that I have yet to run across. A hot 9mm is merely a projectile that overpenetrates at a greater margin than that of a normal 9mm. You can have the biggest baddest loaded 9 you want, but if it doesn't transfer it's energy to it's target, you have one pissed off assailant. Pray he isn't packing a .40 or .45 loaded with Silvertips.
"If a tie is like kissing your sister, losing is like kissing your grandmother with her teeth out." George Brett
kmad61
Member
Posts: 4
(2/24/03 11:00:37 am)
Reply | Edit | Del re:
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I feel very comfortable with my Springfield XD9 with 9mm+P+ ammo.The Federal load has 431ftlbs and a 91% stop ratio compared to the 40sw 180gr Winchester Ranger at 392 ftlbs and a 88% stop ratio.The 9mm,40,and 45 are all good calibers,and you should feel very well armed with any of these,especially with the load selection availible today..
docreg
Member
Posts: 18
(2/24/03 1:34:08 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
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EvilAudio,
Amen!! I literally could not have said it better!
Doc Reg
75BDdude
Member
Posts: 30
(2/24/03 10:12:02 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: What is better, .357 SIG or .40 S&W?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These types of topics always seem to get some serious discussion time don't they!?!?!
Personally I own a couple 9mm's, a .40, a couple .45's and several other pistols in calibers not mentioned here. I carry the 9's, .40's or .45's at different times for different reasons and never feel under-gunned. Part of my confidence in my current 9mm stable is due to the fact they are both CZ's. (I got rid of my other 9's after buying my first CZ) The way I look at it, I can decide which eye socket to aim for on an assailant with these baby's!!! They are both that accurate. My old modified Cold Gold Cup couldn't keep up with these two pistols. Plus, if the first round doesn't give the dude a big enough "owie", then there's 14 more where that one came from.... 14 more quickly and accurately. But I consider the 9mm about the starting point in realistic stopping power. I wouldn't consider anything smaller for myslelf. But that's personal opinion.
I guess what it boils down to is get what you can learn to shoot WELL..... and learn to shoot it well. Then hope to the good Lord you never have to use it to defend yourself or a loved one.
