Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1952Sniper, Mar 6, 2003.

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  1. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

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    reedmit
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (12/31/02 12:26:16 pm)
    Reply Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    I had a shotgun stolen from me and cant find the serial number. I bought it at Wal*Mart and they can't find it in their records. I want to report it but don't know where to start.
    Mitch


    ysacres
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 499
    (12/31/02 12:37:34 pm)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    Welcome to TFF reedmit.

    Thats wierd wallyworld lost the #. The ATF has your #
    wiseacre


    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1664
    (12/31/02 12:39:18 pm)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    Welcome to the board, reedmit -

    Hope you find the shotgun.
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2999
    (12/31/02 12:40:10 pm)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    Wally world is the last place you want to buy a gun from.

    Oh, welcome to the forum, bro. Hope you find the jerk that stole your gun and he does some time in the graybar hotel.

    GG


    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 701
    (12/31/02 12:45:30 pm)
    Reply Re:
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    First, it is your OWN FAULT that you are in this shape. EVERY PERSON SHOULD KEEP A COMPLETE RECORD OF ALL FIREARMS THAT THEY OWN IN A SAFE PLACE.

    However, since you did not do this then something else must be done.

    A licensed dealer is REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW to keep their sales records--Form 4473's *yellow sheets and Permanent Bound Record Books--until they go out of business. These records show BOTH where the dealer obtained the firearm and also its disposition, i.e., the sale to you.

    Walmart is just too lazy to look it up. It is generally a lot of trouble.

    Call the manager and tell him to produce the record OR YOU WILL FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE BATF. This will likely get action.

    If the BATF complaint gets you nowhere (sometimes the BATF is lazy or trifling, too), then generally you can file, or threaten to file, a small-claims court action against the dealer (perhaps joining the BATF? Hmmmm.) and subpoena their records. This works unfailingly, in my experience. I have been forced to resort to this ploy (filing a lawsuit) on a couple of occasions in the past in order to forcing information out of stupid, lazy and/or arrogant people.

    -- ND


    reedmit
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (12/31/02 12:47:18 pm)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    Thanks for the welcome. I have a lot of reading to do here. This forum looks really good so far. So what is the ATF and how do I contact them?
    Mitch


    MTaylor
    Member
    Posts: 11
    (12/31/02 12:53:44 pm)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    I'm wondering... is an FFL required to keep the records for YOUR benefit, or that of the BTAF? In other words, they may not be required to produce the serial number to you. Only to the BTAF.

    Anyone know for sure?


    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 702
    (12/31/02 1:24:08 pm)
    Reply Re:
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    Re: BATF.

    BATF LINK

    Regardless of whose "benefit" records are for, if the records have been kept then they can, in almost all cases, be obtained by subpoena. Further, I really doubt that a dumb-ass Walmart manager would resist a determined effort to obtain his records once he figures out that you really do intend to obtain them. I am also confident that the BATF would assist by exerting some "gentle" pressure on him.

    Walmart is notorious for keeping poor gun records. Just look at the stupid nose-pickin' (with a few exceptions) sales clerks that Walmart hires and try to imagine these furitcake "clerks" keeping good accurate firearms records and you will see what I mean.


    ysacres
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 501
    (12/31/02 1:28:34 pm)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    reedmit I would do as neoDebo suggests in paragraph # 5 tell the manager of wallyworld to produce the # or you will file a complaint with the beaureau (sp) of alcohol tobacco and firearms (BATF)
    wiseacre


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5669
    (12/31/02 1:57:14 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    Walmart is required to keep the records. It would help them look it up if you can narrow down the purchase date to a month/year.

    Unless it is a class 3 or Kalifornia weapon the state or federal government should not be keeping a record of it.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    wsmc667
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 113
    (12/31/02 2:29:32 pm)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    reedmit says:
    Quote:
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    Thanks for the welcome. I have a lot of reading to do here. This forum looks really good so far. So what is the ATF and how do I contact them? Mitch
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    hi Mitch, and welcome to the TFF! sorry to hear about the theft!! i'm kinda new here, too, and yes, this here is a great bunch of folks. don't take their lecturing too hard, but do take it to heart.

    in going through the archives here, i've learned a LOT. and already forgotten MORE knowledge than what i came here with!!!

    chris in sandy eggo


    armedandsafe
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (12/31/02 2:57:38 pm)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    Hey, Chris in sandy egg....I used to be active in the NRA grassroots movement, quite a few years ago. I also worked with the Calif Gun Dealers assoc. If you are the Chris I think you are, you can reach me at my old address or rifler39@yahoo.

    ec

    Armed and Safe - not just a theory


    MTaylor
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (12/31/02 7:24:13 pm)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    I'd have to disagree with you NeoDebo. While all retailers are required to keep the records, according to your link to the BATF retailers:

    1. Can keep the records in most any order, and,
    2. Must cooperate with law enforcement in the tracking of a particular gun (but not a particular gun owner) and only in connection with a bonafide crime.

    No where does it say a retailer must produce the records to an individual. In fact, I would complain that it would be an infringement of my rights to certain privacies for a retailer to give out any information about my gun purchases. And, I would not trust the Wal-Mart clerks to be capable of verifying identity so that they are sure they are not revealing information about someone other than the individual asking.

    I do hope that the original poster convinces a manager a Wal-Mart to give up the information so it can be properly used in this case, but I would not count on it. As someone else mentioned, the sale date would go a long way in getting the information. Wal-Mart may only have it indexed by sale date. And, if the legal department at Wal-Mart is doing it's job then a subpoena will be required to get the information. It's Wal-Marts only protection from liability.

    Of course, I could be way wrong.....


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5673
    (12/31/02 7:29:01 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    Mtaylor, you may be right but what retailer would refuse this service to someone who had a weapon stolen? The police should be the ones going to ask them to look it up but I doubt they will.

    Quote:
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    in going through the archives here, i've learned a LOT. and already forgotten MORE knowledge than what i came here with!!!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    We got archives????????????

    just kidding, I have to admit wading through them a time or two myself
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    Smokin Guns
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 537
    (12/31/02 8:07:36 pm)
    Reply Hey!
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    Just want to make sure y'all know...I am the Un-official moderator of the archives...don't step outa' line...or I'll come down hard on ya!!!....


    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 704
    (12/31/02 8:12:23 pm)
    Reply Re:
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    You may disagree all you wish, however, you may disabuse yourself of any mistaken notion that you may be harboring that, if one proceeds properly, one cannot obtain about any sort of record that has ever been kept by either individuals or private businesses. This has been previously done, and it can and will be done again. It is relatively easy to do this if one is a SOB like me and doesn't mind pi$$ing folks off.

    A SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM, followed with a hearing and court order if needed, will cause 'bout anybody or any business to produce 'but any record ever kept. You'd be surprised what the threat of a contempt citation and, possibly, a few days in jail will do to gain the cooperation of a recalcitrant party, or witness, to a legal action.

    One could even join Walmart, if necessary, in a suit and file a "request for production of documents" as part of the discovery process.

    I once (innocently) came into possession of a stolen firearm that was confiscated by a smart-ass local deputy. I asked the deputy if he knew who allegedly owned the firearm.

    "Yes," he replied.

    "Well," says I. "Who owns it?"

    "You can find that out when it becomes public knowledge," replied the deputy in a haughty and snotty manner.

    I set the matter for a hearing before the district court, subpoenaed the deputy and the confiscated firearm, swore him in, introduced the firearm, and then asked the deputy this question, "Do you know who allegedly owned this firearm?"

    "Yes," he replied.

    "Well," says I, "Who owns it."

    And he did,too, tell me, that is. He didn't even stutter.

    Needless to say, that particular deputy was not my friend after that. Shucks, he were not my friend BEFORE that either. Well, upon reflection, I guess that he were not my friend at any time either before or after. I really lost sleep over that, too.

    I'd be willing to bet ten to one that I could "convince" Walmart to cooperate and produce the subject record.

    Any takers?


    shooter22
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 1786
    (12/31/02 11:08:05 pm)
    Reply Re: Re:
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    NeoDebo,

    It would be nice if you could kindly welcome a new member before you rip off his head and spit down his neck.
    Quote:
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    First, it is your OWN FAULT that you are in this shape.
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    The man asked an important question, and if you had read it closely enough, you would have noticed that he said
    Quote:
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    ,...and can't find the serial number
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    . Sounds like he had it and it got misplaced.

    I see your need to bring this little loss of information to light, as it makes your little mishap not the only one in the world to happen.


    Quote:
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    This works unfailingly, in my experience. I have been forced to resort to this ploy (filing a lawsuit) on a couple of occasions in the past in order to forcing information out of stupid, lazy and/or arrogant people.
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    We know that you like your opinion and you like to rile people up. Hey, whatever you like, but at least give a New guy a chance to wet his feet. We are trying to gain members here not lose them.

    Good question reedmit, and welcome to the forum. I hope you like the forum and find your answers. Don't take NeoDebo's comment to heart, he is a Mostly straight forward guy and has some good information. He just forgets to see who is new. Sometime he stomps pretty hard right off the start.

    Hey, Bin Laden, our women can kick you butt!


    rayra
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 409
    (12/31/02 11:55:16 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Re:
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    simple answer is keep better records.
    next-simple answer is point the police dept at Walmart, give them all the info you can, and say 'sic'em'.
    Rich


    boeboe1
    Member
    Posts: 34
    (1/1/03 12:33:25 am)
    Reply Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    Just to clear up one point, unless you live in a city or state that requires registration of firearms, any firearm you buy from a FFL dealer is NOT registered to you. There is no Federal registration of firearms, save AOW and class III stuff. The delaer you bought it from is required to keep the "yellow", cooperate with authorities if they need to track a firearm transaction down, and turn the info over when they go out of business, but that isn't registration, at least, it's not according to the NRA.


    wsmc667
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 114
    (1/1/03 2:51:44 am)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    armedandsafe says:
    Quote:
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    Hey, Chris in sandy egg....I used to be active in the NRA grassroots movement, quite a few years ago. I also worked with the Calif Gun Dealers assoc. If you are the Chris I think you are, you can reach me at my old address or rifler39@yahoo.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    hey armedandsafe ... naw, probably not me. thanks for tryin though!!

    chris in sandy eggo


    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 6753
    (1/1/03 8:12:26 am)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    Good grief, what a bunch of wind!
    Bring that down here and ask for my records....big boy!
    I am liable to only two
    BATF, with warrant
    Local LEO...also with warrant

    Both must list the specific firearm and proof of crime(warrant).
    Now I could be nice and just let them have at it, but I ain`t nice-neither.:b

    I show them, they don`t get to cruise through any records. Touch nothing! Remove Nothing!! Better bring a sharp pencil or portable copier.

    PERIOD!!!


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5693
    (1/1/03 12:05:52 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    I agree 100% LTS. But if he had bought the gun from you, you would be kind enough to look up the number for him wouldn't you?
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 6756
    (1/1/03 12:50:11 pm)
    Reply Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    I doubt, I would have any problem doing so...but I am not Wal-Mart.

    How long ago was it bought????
    What month???
    Shotgun/rifle
    Name??/

    Every store has a different way of logging in and out.

    "Remington" can you imagine how many a wal-mart store sells in a year. It starts (Bound Book) as a Remington, nothing more. Some one could spend days or weeks looking. That could be twenty plus bound books, depending on the location and if I was Wal-Mart.....I would nicely tell him, too bad. Even the local LEO`s have little power in this. Dealers are "federal" and are "ask" to cooperate, they do not have too. BATF has the say and if you deny locals.......they must prove to the BATF you need searching and the "EXACT" weapon, of which cannot be produced.....because no recorded serial number is known. I could go on in greater detail......because it`s even more invovled than that. My responce was directed to the "scare them with a piece of paper and they`ll do as they`re told." FLY ME!

    LTS


    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 6759
    (1/1/03 1:33:52 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Where can I find out what guns are registered to me?
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    If an ATF inspection is taking place at the licensed
    premisess, then the FFL(responsible person)MUST
    produce the last quarter year of 4473's upon request
    along with log book(for that time frame)to the inspector
    for viewing in said licensed premisess for the purpose
    of compliance in proper record keeping.


    Tac
    TFF VMBB Email Tac
     
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