Why cut the slide if the factory choose not to?

Discussion in 'Centerfire Pistols & Revolvers' started by cannonman, Apr 28, 2020.

  1. cannonman

    cannonman Active Member

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    I see where a few have their slide take on a diet and make them lose weight. I'm told this is to reduce flip. I see several examples of this working. Well, here's my story: I drive my poor Wife crazy for a couple of years winning about getting Walther's Q5 Match. I get a Canick, really nice but really needs a new trigger - your finger gets trapped onto the guard as it breaks - And continue to pester Her for the Walther. This Christmas I get one! Yeah me. It's super nice but at 2.5X the price of the Canick I'm bothered. Then Walther comes out with the SF. Steel Frame. I can't trade or other wise make financial sense of getting a SF model. Then I get my hands on a CZ Shadow 2. OOOhhhh! Instant love affair. I chat with a guy who gets one and immediately sends it off to have the slide put on a diet. Here's my question: Why? This is the Shadow "2". I'm am sure that the fine folks who made it are well aware of putting a slide on a weight reduction program. So if it's such a good idea to cut the slide, why doesn't the factory do it? When you watch a CZ Shadow being fired it looks like a 10 degree flip. Or at least not a 20 - 25 degree flip. What gives?
     
  2. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

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    Some people can't leave well enough alone.
     

  3. SeeMor Guns

    SeeMor Guns Well-Known Member

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    Simple, less mass equals less recoil and the guns work faster and better with lighter loads. The lighter it is and the less recoil it has means the faster you can put rounds on target. Also, people usually add serrations for easier manipulation of the slide.
     
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  4. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Less mass equals less recoil?

    Then why does my 3-inch officers model, which is much less massy than my 5-inch government model, have more recoil?

    Why does my aluminum frame Commander have more recoil than my steel frame Commander?

    Why does my aluminum and titanium J frame 38 have much much much more recoil than my steel J frame 38?

    I believe you are confused.
     
  5. Larry Isaacs

    Larry Isaacs Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Being of limited portions of a sound mind can someone explain the weight reduction of the slide, when if you want a faster slide movement to reduce the return spring pressure. Wolff provides springs in any number of weights and I would suspect at a much lower cost than cutting and refinishing a slide.
    Now while I have not been on the planet long enough to learn everything I must ask the next question: I have known many target shooters that have added weight to the muzzle to keep the muzzle down.
    I have a CZ ShadowII and it is heavy but shoots great another weapon I have, Dan Wesson 10mm, it is heavy but stays on target very well.
    I think the slide cutting is a fad and may go the way of the Great Auk.
    All of that said I am willing to listen to a counter idea.

    Larry
     
  6. SeeMor Guns

    SeeMor Guns Well-Known Member

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    Not confused at all. Less reciprocating mass equals less force. It is simple physics.
    Comparing one firearm to a completely different firearm makes no sense when comparing the before and after mods of the same weapon. Also, not taking into consideration the other changes made when the slide is cut is just silly. The person that cuts a slide is going to make more changes than just the cuts.

    My Canik for example. I have completely changed the recoil impulse by changing the recoil spring to match the ammo being used in it. I added a tungsten guide rod to counter the effect of a faster slide action which caused more muzzle flip. I added a plus power striker spring to eliminate the issue of not going into battery because of the reduced recoil spring power. The effect of all of these changes is a completely different recoil impulse with the same weapon and ammo.

    When you change one thing, a lot of times more changes need to be made for the full effect.
     
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  7. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    Alpo, I think the answer is in the lighter loads being able to operate a lighter slide. At least that's what I think SeeMor means. Otherwise simple physics negates the statement. A lighter firearm with the same load can't recoil less.

    Larry's reply about the spring kit answers both and makes the most sense to me. Leave the slide alone, use a lighter load that will operate the slide with the new springs and reduce recoil.

    Edit: SeeMor posted while I was...so mebbe not.
     
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  8. howlnmad

    howlnmad Old Guy Doing Things Moderator Supporting Member

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    And here I always thought it was so everybody can see the cool aftermarket barrel. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Rock185

    Rock185 Well-Known Member

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    Poor Jerry Miculek. If only he knew enough to have creative holes machined in the slide, and used lighter springs, he could shoot really fast like all the guys on the internet;)
     
  10. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    Or Bob Munden or Ed McGivern or.....
     
  11. Screener

    Screener Well-Known Member

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    My neighbor, nice guy but has more money than common sense, purchased a shadow 2 then found that it was too heavy for IDPA. He's having the slide lightened to meet the weight restrictions.
     
  12. ms6852

    ms6852 GUNZILLA Supporting Member

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    I've all the firearms I own with the exception of my carry guns are all factory. My 1911's have a trigger job done by gunsmiths. All my customs are only 10/22's.

    For me the reason I believe in factory only firearms is that it becomes a personal challenge between me, the firearm and the target. I want to ensure and I think it is a matter of pride that I have good or great shooting skills.
     
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  13. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes factory doesn't do what you want.

    I have a pair of Bisley Blackhawks. As most folks should know, all Bisleys, whether Blackhawk, Vaquero or Single Six, are built on the New Model action. I sent them off and had them converted. I also had the barrel on one of them shortened.

    I wanted a Smith & Wesson hand ejector in 38/40, but that did not exist. Model 28 N frame 357s did, and so I bought one and sent it off. I now have an N frame hand ejector in 38/40.

    It is your gun, so do whatever you think is necessary to get it where it makes you happy.
     
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  14. cannonman

    cannonman Active Member

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    It my belief, and that means nothing, that the manufacture of the Shadow 2 knows full well what cutting their slide will do. Moreover if it is beneficial they would do this. Or... Why would they not? Or for that matter, why don't many other manufactures cut their slides? Love to be enlightened. Thanks for the thoughts.
     
  15. Patches

    Patches Well-Known Member

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    I probably will regret saying this but for the life of me I do not understand why lightening the weight of a 1911 slide is preferable to changing the recoil spring for any reason; BUT apparently it is a thing and I stand ready to suffer for my lack of understanding.
    To me it looks like there would be a whole lot of cutting and then testing that slide weight for proper functioning that would take a lot of time and expense as opposed to getting a pack of Wolf springs and testing them with the preferred load to see which one works best.
    What am I missing in this?