[soundguy]

over the last couple weeks i've been looking at some military sniper scopes.

seeig lots of 4 and 6 x 24 and 32 types.

seems awfully low power for a 'sniper'?

a basic 3-9x40 seems to bethe most common fair out there for the average hunter.

beats a pso or pu scopes it seems ? or am i missing something?

 

[Albtraum]

Because when your target is a 6 foot person, you need different tools than when your target is a 1/2" Bullseye. Also to make everything simpler, judging distances with mil-dots, and other techniques that require a fixed magnification optic.

 

[JLA]

The preference among most trained operators is not more than 16X on the maximum end. Most of them favor something in the 5-15X or a fixed 10X. And these guys have an uncanny ability to stack their shots out to 1000 yds with them.

 

[slayer]

I have a 6-24x50 on my 300 win mag and it really reaches out. The most common caliber for a sniper is 7.62x51 and with shots out to 5-600 meters a 6-24 is more than sufficient. If I'm not mistaken carlos hathcock only used a 3-9x40 on his model 70 30-06 and that guy was deadly. Now a 338 lapua or a 50 cal may need something bigger for optics but I would say not so for the standard 7.62x51.

 

[Albtraum]

I have a 6-24x50 on my 300 win mag and it really reaches out. The most common caliber for a sniper is 7.62x51 and with shots out to 5-600 meters a 6-24 is more than sufficient. If I'm not mistaken carlos hathcock only used a 3-9x40 on his model 70 30-06 and that guy was deadly. Now a 338 lapua or a 50 cal may need something bigger for optics but I would say not so for the standard 7.62x51.

Even Barrett 50s are often fitted with Fixed 10x scopes. And not with giant 56mm objective lenses either. What the military uses is quite a bit different than what's popular for the recreational shooter. Especially when it comes to long range precision rifles

 

[Bigbill]

I prefer a 3 x 9 x 40 scope that has the BDC out to 500yds on most my newer hunting rifles. The range on the mechanical adjustable turret can range from 100yds to 500yds or 150yds to 500yds then can vary with the different models. Having a scope that is clear and sharp in low light conditions is the key too. I have a 6x24 x40 with BDC my 338win mag. This scope has been tested for over two decades now in all weather conditions and going from a heated cabin to ten degree weather hunting and it's still clear as it was when it was brand new.

The 1" tube does limit the gathering of light that the scope sees even though the front piece is 50mm. I think the larger 35mm tube is the way to go on a larger caliber rifle but it has to have the BDC option.

 

[siplace]

I have a question about mil dots.

I bought a 3X9 40 for my AR-15 but I haven't done any long range shooting with it. And point of fact I have never zeroed it. If I need to take a long shot that is what the 30-06 or 30-30 is for. Both of them have a fixed 4 power. These scopes are older and do not have mill dots just a cross hair. But that is hunting. The AR is not for hunting. I am training with it for close work but will eventually want to learn to make long shots with it.

The 3X9 does have mil dots. Is there a set measurement between the dots? What I mean is 1 MOA is 1 inch at 100 yards, so if I zero my scope to 100 yards then increase distance to 200 yards and adjust sight by 1 mil dot am I back on target? or am I still low or too high or do mil dots not work like that at all.

 

[Bigbill]

Does the mil dots adjust for the different bullet weights? Or is it set for one bullet weight?

Having the BDC option where we adjust the distances manually by turning the turret to the yardage were we need the bullet to be dead on at. The scope comes with different turret rings for different bullet weights. With my 30-06 I have the ring in the dial for the 180gr bullet. With my 700 in 338wm the ring in it is for the 225gr bullet. All I know is I adjust the turret till it's set for the yardage and aim dead on the cross hairs and that's exactly we're the bullet is going to hit. The guess work and Kentucky windage is eliminated.

Right now I think BSA is offering the BDC option on there scope for the 223 caliber and the 17HMR caliber too. I been looking for the scope with the BDC option for the 7,62x39 caliber too. When the scope is made for one caliber it has all the correct bullet weight rings in the box too.

When where watching the guys hunting on tv with the long distance shots and it takes 2 or 3 missed shots to get it finally dialed in when taking game I often wonder what scope there using. I'm also thinking there maybe more cross wind too but watch closely when they shoot as to where the bullet hits. If it's a right to left hit its a cross wind but, if it's a high shot or a low shot the scope isn't dialed in for that distance. This is where having the BDC option pays off.

I often wondered how the dot system worked on these scopes were the dots are a fixed position. How do we reset it for different bullet weights. Or is it preset for one bullet weight?

 

[Grizz]

I have a question about mil dots.


The 3X9 does have mil dots. Is there a set measurement between the dots? What I mean is 1 MOA is 1 inch at 100 yards, so if I zero my scope to 100 yards then increase distance to 200 yards and adjust sight by 1 mil dot am I back on target? or am I still low or too high or do mil dots not work like that at all.

Usually you have to be on full power for the mil dots to be correct. then between the dots is 1 MIL, not 1 MOA. 1 Mil at 100 yards is 3.6" and 7.2" at 200 yards. So if your bullet drops 7.2" from 100 to 200 yards, a 1 MIL correction would be correct.

 

[Bigbill]

I guess the mil dots are for mom (minute of man accuracy) not for making pinpoint shots. You can adjust the mil dots to your bullet weight?? I'm Thinking.... bill

 

[siplace]

The scope is just a cheap Barska 3-9 X42 IR It does have a BDC turret but the instructions do not mention anything about bullet weight. It has six positions. Supposedly it adjusts at 1 click per 100 yards, and in a good scope I would expect that to be dead on but in a $110 scope... No so much.

Also would bullet weight matter? In 1 second 10 pounds falls as far as 1 pound. I can see bullet contour and muzzle velocity having an effect. A round nose is going to slow down faster than a sharp nose thus taking longer to travel the distance so the gravity has more time to pull it down, but two slugs of the same contour with the same MV would drop at the same rate no matter what their weight. Wouldn't they?

Grizz - Thanks. Check me to see if I understand please. At 500 yards 1 mil would be 18 inches. 5 X 3.6"

So that in a scope with 5 mill dots at full power magnification your range of total elevation change by mil dots would be 180 inches. 5 above center 5 below center.

This gets confusing pretty quickly.

 

[bntyhntr6975]

Most snipers tend to use the mid range power (but high quality glass) of scopes because of a few simple reasons. They need only enough power to identify the target and aim at center mass. Getting 'up close and personal' can lend itself to becoming sympathetic with the target. I beilieve its refferred to as Stockholm syndrome. Also, they need as much field of view as possible, for observation, and to ensure that 'innocents' are clear of the target. Higher magnifications also increase mirage, making identification harder as it distorts the vision. Mid range powers are just kind of the happy median for most situations.

 

[soundguy]

? x 24 just doesn't seem to be 'objective' enough.

couple that with a low power like a '4 IE.. 4x24

and that's like a bb gun scope.

 

[Bigbill]

I been buying a few Bushnell banner scopes in black matte there 3-9x40 with the BDC option. I been using the Bushnell sportview and the trophy models since '94 and never had a problem, both have the BDC and the A/O options. bBack then they were the top of their line. The Bushnell banner with the BDC option is around $100, but it's the last Bushnell scope with the manual bdc being offreed and it maybe discontinued too. These are very popular scopes with hunters and shooters too. Your buying a quality scope for a low cost. I do plan on having the banner scope with the bdc option on all my scoped rifles soon. They take the guess work out of making a long distance accurately too.

 

[Grizz]

Grizz - Thanks. Check me to see if I understand please. At 500 yards 1 mil would be 18 inches. 5 X 3.6"

So that in a scope with 5 mill dots at full power magnification your range of total elevation change by mil dots would be 180 inches. 5 above center 5 below center.

This gets confusing pretty quickly.

Yes that is correct at 500 yards 18" is 1 mil. Your total range would be 90" though. So say your deer is at 500 yards and you estimate a 54" bullet drop (assuming you have a 100 yard zero at center), without adjusting the turrets you would hold on the 3rd mil down below center line. each mil at 500 yards will compensate for 18" of drop so 3 x 18 =54" Hope this isn't too confusing.

 

[Albtraum]

? x 24 just doesn't seem to be 'objective' enough.

couple that with a low power like a '4 IE.. 4x24

and that's like a bb gun scope.

yeah I never understood those 1-4 X 20mm tactical, Close Quarters Combat scopes issued to troops for their M4s and M16s. Leupold, Trijicon, and other high end manufacturers make them. Seems like a 20mm objective severely limits your vision and peripherals. Or, maybe they're meant to be used to both eyes open, and enhance peripherals?

 

[siplace]

Confusing is not the right word. It's a whole bunch of new concepts that I just have to get my head around and internalize the ideas for.

Tell truth, hunting in PA I don't think I have even had a shot of more than 150 to an absolute maximum of 200 yards. Too many hills and too many trees unless you are hunting a farmers fields then there is too much open space except for that house that is 400 yards behind the deer. No shot there.

But scoping is a part of shooting. I have fantasies of being able to hit 10 for 10 on a 6 inch gong at 500 yards with the AR but that is most likely all they will ever be.

Thanks for the info Grizz.

 

[soundguy]

yeah I never understood those 1-4 X 20mm tactical, Close Quarters Combat scopes issued to troops for their M4s and M16s. Leupold, Trijicon, and other high end manufacturers make them. Seems like a 20mm objective severely limits your vision and peripherals. Or, maybe they're meant to be used to both eyes open, and enhance peripherals?

that's what i'm talking about. 20 - 24 that's a small objective area. I'd almost think you'd want 40 or 50 realistically. even 32 seems marginal.. I kow we are talking man sized target. but how often do we ( ok.. the sniper ) ge tthe entire silo. what if a person is setting.. or partially obscured. that man sized target may now be 1/2 sized...

I got 22 and bbgun scopes ( really... ) with better objective area


ont he close quarter tacticazl. seems like red dot or one of those holographic scopes would be the best.. then you would use 2 eyes. at least the new holo scopes I saw.. etc.

 

[wolfdog]

The size of your objective does not govern field of view, that is determined more by your magnification and eye relief. The size of the objective does determine light gathering. The larger the objective the more light. Helps in low light , but other than that does not do much for you. Low magnification helps with rapid target acquisition.

 

[soundguy]

hasn't seemed to bother me too much on hunting having way, way more than 4x24 scope. seem to find the target darn well.

i know plenty of shots I mighta misse don a 4x24, unless it was on raised look thru bases where I could have used the iron sights.

not arguing with anybody..... just looking at my hunting rifle scopes.. and 'sniper rifle scopes... and well.. glad i have the hunting rifle scopes. my opinion.. etc...