Win the WAR! ( 1 2 3 )

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ruffitt, Mar 3, 2003.

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  1. ruffitt

    ruffitt *TFF Admin Staff* In Heaven Now

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    (11/2/01 3:00:24 pm)
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    Win the WAR!
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    Are we liberating Afghanistan?
    Are we there to avenge 5,000+ murdered Americans
    and to protect by killing those preparing to murder again???

    We know our enemy is planning more mass murder.
    Everyday of urban safety for them is another day of peril for innocent Americans.
    How much does constraint cost? Is our enemies believing in their indestructibility?
    What do you think?

    Charle D
    P.S. After Chosin Reservior..You better believe I'm a HAWK!

    Flhunter
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    (11/2/01 3:38:12 pm)
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    I am getting so sick and tired of hearing on the news about the poor afgans and poor this, and watching their grief. When I see and hear that mess, all I can think about is how they were cheering on the attacks of Sept. 11. I do not feel sorry for them at all.



    Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

    polishshooter
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    (11/2/01 4:09:53 pm)
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    Uh, no offense, but the AFGHANS weren't the ones you saw cheering on TV, it was the Palestinians on the West Bank...

    The Afghan people have been disarmed and misled by this illigitimate government...and we are helping other AFGHANS to retake it.

    So do you want to see the BAD Afghans starve, or the GOOD Afghans starve, or doesn't it make a difference, kill them all?

    The AFGHANS did not attack us, remember that...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2666
    (11/2/01 6:54:21 pm)
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    You are either with us or against us and if you harbor-feed-supply-aid to terrorist, you are just as quilty....... WHAT FREAKIN PART OF THAT IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND!!! Oh, yea....we get to pick and choose just how bad you are. Either get out of the way or become a casualty..... NUFF SAID!
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2086
    (11/2/01 7:47:14 pm)
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    Again, what part of "Afghanistan isn't the enemy" don't YOU understand, LTS?

    The Taliban is NOT the legitimate government of Afghanistan, period. And Osama bin Laden is NOT Afghan. And most of Al Qeda isn't either...

    The Taliban is the one supporting Trash Bin, therefore THEY are the enemy...and there are Afghans FIGHTING the Taliban, so...you remember "Hearts and Minds?" it WAS working in Vietnam until the conventional warriors and the politicians took over fighting it....

    It really isn't hard to comprehend, LTS, maybe if you drop...er...pop a few more meds!
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/2/01 9:24:56 pm)
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    Who lets them live there? Who helps them? Who just lets them do as they wish? 8 Million vs what 200,000.....they can bite me, this ain`t a new thing and they have (mostly) helped them until......woha! we might get killed. SCREW THEM ALL!! grow up.....get out of the way or DIE!



    Aid-feed-harbor......Is it really that hard to see????
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    Flhunter
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    (11/2/01 9:45:48 pm)
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    Bush and Powell are sitting in a bar.
    A guy walks in and asks the barman: "Isn't that Bush and Powell?"
    The barman says: "Yep, thats them."
    So the guy walks over and says: "Hello, what are u guys doing?"
    And Bush says: "We're planning world war 3."
    And the guy says: "Really? What's going to happen?"
    And Bush says: "Well, we're going to kill 10 million Afghans and one bicycle repairman."
    And the guy exclaims: "A bicycle repairman?!!!"
    So, Bush turns to Powell and says: "See? I told you no-one would worry about the 10 million Afghans!"




    Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2093
    (11/2/01 9:54:55 pm)
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    Hey LTS, answer all your questions with..."THE TALIBAN!"

    What's the FIRST thing the Taliban did when they took power? TOOK AWAY ALL THE GUNS FROM THE PEOPLE. And BRAGGED about it! The Afghans who are NOT fighting the Taliban are slaves...they mean NOTHING to bin Laden, and they HATE bin Laden, would NEVER support him except under the barrels of the Talibans guns.

    That ALONE should tell you we need to "support" the Afghans.

    Hell, if we would have done it in 89-90 when the Russians beet feet, instead of packing our cookies and going home, and ABANDONING them after we were done with them like a cheap whore, letting them kill each other because "they didn't matter to us anymore" this whole THING probably wouldn't have happened.

    Or if it did, Al Qaida would be somewhere we could REACH better, and not THERE.

    If we would have stayed engaged after 1989, it's GUARANTEED the Taliban would not have won...and no Taliban? No AL Qaida OR bin Laden in Afghanistan, case CLOSED.
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/2/01 10:05:51 pm)
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    Polish, tough I fancy most of your history lessons ( most are excellent) THIS AIN`T one of them, no matter who we did or WILL support there, it will be the same thing again. We did it before and look what happened....oh we crapped out, they had weapons just as the SVN did, what did they do......???? RUN AND FREAKIN CRY!!! you left us high and dry! Go ahead and forget the Taliwantabies....as soon as there gone (hiding with the friendlies) it will start anothe saga in the book of....I TOLD YOU SO! These people shift with the wind and you no it. As soon as we`re gone, they will do the same.....then it will be ok, because they didn`t crash the WTC......... YET!
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/2/01 10:26:51 pm)
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    LTS, you need some more lessons....

    Afghans did NOT crash the WTC! Get that STRAIGHT!

    ARAB Islamic extremists crashed the WTC. ARABS do not BELONG in Afghanistan!

    Yes, there ARE Islamic Extremists in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Egypt, the Phillipines, Malaysia, Borneo, Tajikistan, Usbekistan, Chechnya, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, the UAE, Qatar, the Sudan...and I've not listed even CLOSE to all the places they are.

    And yes they hate us.

    BUT, that is NOT a crime.

    Attacking us IS. And ARAB extremists from AL Qiada, currently sheltered by the illigitimate Taliban, DID. NOBODY else did that. OK, yet.

    BUT they DID. SO we go after THEM, and anybody ELSE that does or is PLANNING to.

    What is YOUR alternative? Nuke EVERYBODY on the list above, NOW, just for the fun of it?

    What about the fact that Islamic Extremists are in the MINORITY in every place I listed above? You want to kill innocent people too? I get it, we are going to change your name to Osama bin LTS.

    C'mon, LTS, I KNOW you don't believe that. Overreacting is EXACTLY what ANY terrorists want us, or any OTHER target to do.

    THAT is the whole PURPOSE of terrorists, all through HISTORY. Get the target to overreact, ostensibly to "protect" their own people, until their own people hate them and overthrow them themselves!

    This IS the only thing we can do, right now, and "reserve the right" to do it again, anytime we are attacked, or "Reasonably believe" we soon will be.

    Not a minute BEFORE, or then we are on our own.

    And will LOSE.

    Yeah. This is going to be a LONG war. And it may NEVER end. There may be MORE WTCs, and this is what we have to do EACH time!

    All we can hope is to SOMEDAY get them before they do it, or better yet, get somebody ELSE to do them before it happens.

    That's the purpose of the "coalition."

    IF we can get the whole "civilized" world to go along with us, then Nigeria, for example, WON'T WAIT to hit a terrorist camp THEY find in Chad, or Niger...they'll whack it for us!

    THAT's why Bush met with the DEMOCRATICALLY elected President of Nigeria today, in the White House.

    And oh yeah, Nigeria is predominantly Islamic...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/2/01 10:49:26 pm)
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    Did I say nuke anyone??? And for your information, as reports say.....all involved hi-jackers were SAUDIS, we`re kissing their ass`s too. What else do we need to kiss, the shite that comes from every ass over there????? It`s a war, remember what that is???? I feakin give up......leave those nice people over there alone. Like I freakin care for them, like they do us...... GIVE ME A KING SIZE BREAK!!!
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    BlackGun
    Moderator
    Posts: 1476
    (11/2/01 11:05:40 pm)
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    Toe to Toe what a debate! Just don't make it personal between us, chill
    rules for survival: Sight alignment, Breath control, & Trigger Squeeze
    BlackGUN

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/2/01 11:21:02 pm)
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    HECK, BG, we ALWAYS do this, me and LTS, we like each other!

    The only way to exercise the mind is to stimulate it, and the best way to do THAT is to argue!

    Take a position and DEFEND it, and at the same time try to convince others, all the time while LISTENING too...in the process, you learn alot, sometimes that your position IS indefensible, which is the mark of the intelligent man...being able to change ones mind based on new or better information, or by viewing from a different perspective.

    And LTS is an intelligent man...as I am, and we respect that about each other..."Kiss my Ass" is a term of endearment between us.

    Yeah, sometimes it SOUNDS like I'm getting personal, but believe me, I am not, ever, with anybody.

    Back to the point...LTS, you are proving my point!

    Saudi Arabians are arabs. That is what I was saying all the time.

    BUT why are they (the wackos) not in Saudi? They would be KILLED. They pose a bigger threat to the Saudi Royalty than to US.

    Why do the MAJORITY of Saudis NOT support bin Laden?

    Because they are RICH, because they have a benevolent dictatorship, WHICH THEY ACCEPT WILLINGLY as a legitimate government.

    So again, what is your solution to a small MINORITY of Saudis that hate us and would attack us? Destroy all of Saudi Arabia?

    You are frustrated, LTS, hell, so am I, because there ISN'T an easy solution to this, BUT we have to "fight smart," not just "hard."

    And whether you believe it or not now, we ARE fighting as smart as we can right now, you'll see, give it time.
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2682
    (11/2/01 11:54:04 pm)
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    What a steaming LOAD!! The Saudi`s support and fund them and are just as guilty. OH! just because "they wern`t there" so freakin what!!!! THEY STILL FUND THEM and the KING? does too....though he "badly" denies it. COME ON!!< they are squirrels from a nutless tree. I know you can see it, we maybe not, pols and bush beer....could be tainted minds.....


    Intelligent??? Dang!, I have moved up from being plankton...slurp-slurp. YOU JIST!!!!! I am one rock, short of a box...............
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2098
    (11/3/01 12:00:25 am)
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    Hey LTS, the Saudis are scared SHITLESS of him and what he stands for.

    EVERYTHING bin Laden does is aimed at overthrowing the Saudi King...and getting his cash!

    It IS all about money and power, hating us is just a cover.
    THAT'S the key to beating him...money. Which is the OTHER front we are winning on.

    The Saudi Royalty are between a rock and another rock...damned no matter WHAT they do, so , they are after one thing, self preservation.

    Just a bunch of Bedouins who settled down and made good, BUT have insured their reign by making Saudis rich...and rich men don't "rock the boat."

    bin Laden is a threat, and they know it. You should too...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2683
    (11/3/01 12:09:54 am)
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    That must be why they give up the cash and look the other way. Give me a break! You know what kind of ploy this is, act like you don`t know or are scared (YEA! now you are) so you can be safe from the rath. PLEASE!!! Lets get to the real facts.... we ain`t going to follow through, we`re seeing it RIGHT NOW!, "if you harbor-support-feed" ah? ah? YEA! RIGHT!! Saudi {funds} Pakistan {funds} could I go on???, you know I could. WHAT A FREAKIN JOKE THIS WHOLE THING IS seel ME!!!!!!!!!


    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2099
    (11/3/01 12:13:32 am)
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    So what is your answer, LTS?

    I'm waiting with baited breath...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2684
    (11/3/01 12:57:20 am)
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    DANG! you would have to ask, just when the buzzer went off to my fresh armadillo/opossum and double cheese pizza went off...... AIN`T NO ONE GOING TO RUIN THIS FEAST, IT`S FRESH...........STRAIGHT FROM THE TRACKS, sliced wild bunions and muskiedine grapes.....YUM-YUM! will have to continue this tomorrow
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    A Professional
    Member
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    (11/3/01 5:15:18 am)
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    Polish is right LTS. Yea, Bush said we will not tolerate those who harbor terrorists. But it's the Taliban harbors them, not the people. The Afghans dont want the Taliban as their government, but as long as they are, the Afghans can do little to stop them. This isnt just about revenge, were also freeing a people here. It wont be long till the North Alliance is BACK in control, and the people thanking the USA for it. Sounds like racism is the heart of your arguments LTS.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/3/01 9:34:13 am)
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    Professional, don't worry, LTS and Gpostal too, like to bitch, and besides that, like to get me going! They know me so well!

    I LOVE to argue about stuff I feel strongly about, which is just about anything. That's how you learn the fastest about ANYTHING.

    And I never back down, especially when I think I'm right!

    (The operative word is "think..." )

    They like to get my goat and blood pressure up.

    Exercise for the brain....

    In fact, maybe we need to change LTS to LTB...HHHmmm....maybe I'll start calling him that

    Lots of times, the easiest way to get somebody to THINK is to ask, "What's your solution?"

    Many times people have no clue what an ALTERNATIVE might be, they just KNOW this way is wrong!

    My hero Ronnie used to say that to reporters all the time when they would question him about stuff, and he got exasperated, and it shut them up. "What's the alternative????"

    But remember, we're still GOOD friends, even IFthey are usually wrong....
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2689
    (11/3/01 9:55:50 am)
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    Racist??? You jist. Just a few ideas from a country hillbilly.

    First, if you are on the terrorist watch list group....country or other wise or harbor them, you will no longer get our dollars, trade goods Nor will yours be allowed into the USA or will any of your country men (women) be allowed to enter our country. THAT MEANS OIL TOO!!!! START DRILLING IN ALASKA AND QUIT WHINING!!!! DO IT AND DO IT NOW!!!

    Second, if you are here on a visa, expired or not....and you are from one of these terrorist listed countries or supporters.... YOUR FREAKIN GONE!! NOW!! Want to show who the real tough guy is on the block JUST DO IT! We are at war, but we continue to let people come in from these watch list countries and school and train them in avionitics.......give me a break! To say that today, if you are from one of those countries and I should not look .....just a little longer at you is just stupid.......get over it.
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    A Professional
    Member
    Posts: 23
    (11/3/01 2:52:32 pm)
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    So people from Afhgan, who left because they "didnt" support the Taliban, they are gone huh? Ship them back huh? Smart... I guess where you were born limits the freedom you have on this earth to choose how you want to live right? And anyone who's from "that area" get fuked because of a terrorist organization thats a miniority in the Islamic society? Smart...

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (11/3/01 3:50:46 pm)
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    To freakin bad and I would ask you what rights? In order to have rights in this country, you need to be a citizen of this country, bleeding heart liberals allow these people the rights afforded to American`s...... THEY ARE NOT! I say too bad and get over it. Are you going to tell me that "know your neighbor" crap??? Isn`t that trying to proflie people??? The ones that did this, were neighbors of somebody, and were for years (sleepers) sorry I don`t share your feel good logic and save the whales feelings. If you are a citizen, you have rights, if you are not......you do not. Is that hard to see??? I believe it`s in our Constitition and Bill of Rights. LTS
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2112
    (11/3/01 4:53:26 pm)
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    Now LTB, I mean LTS ( ) I DON'T disagree with much of what you are saying but that still doesn't tell me how you want to fight the WAR.

    Drill for Oil in ANWR? Should have already been developed, that would shock ALL of OPEC, hell, it would have them crawling to us if we just ANNOUNCED we were going to EXPLORE for it prior to drilling.

    The Visa and INS crap you are wanting are all either in the new bill that passed, or pending, I have no no problem with that. In fact, just had the same argument with my son, you have no rights if you are not a citizen, that means habeus corpus too, you get caught JAYWALKING and you don't have you visa on you you get held w/o bond in the local jail as long as it takes for the INS to check you out, if you have a student visa, that says you are going to attend IU, and you aren't RIGHT NOW registered as a full time IU student, you are immediately DEPORTED, not allowed back EVER.

    And, even though I have to think it through a little more, I don't at this time have a problem with immediately deporting ANYONE from any country whose LEGITIMATE government is on the new list, of harboring recognized international terrorist groups, UNLESS they ask for political asylum, then stringent interviews and background checks BEFORE asylum is granted...even if we have to "detain" them in protective custody before we grant it.

    Heck, I might go a step further...allow NO visas without a "sponsor..." a US citizen that agrees to be responsible for ANYTHING they do here, and is OBLIGATED to know where they are and what they are doing at ALL times they are here.

    But still, you haven't said HOW you would fight the war in Afghanistan.




    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2694
    (11/3/01 5:25:53 pm)
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    Pokeyman......er, I mean Polish. Fighting the war, hum? how would I do it? Lets see, if we`re talking about the current task at hand Afhganistan, a couple of things come to mind; but I believe they are being done and the press is being left out of the loop (cry me a freakin river, like I care)

    Here`s a hillbilly plan: I would do just as it has started and continue with these changes ( remember I believe some of this is going on or planned) Now that we control the air and most of the ground.....

    Step one.....drop sensors, a bunch!
    Second.......paint every suspected hide out/cave/bunker,ect. and when you find a muti-complex bunker/caves, bring in a 5-10K AFB and drop it right in the center of the place, suck up some oxygen.

    Step three, since we can`t use napalm against people anymore, lets get rid of it while we`re there and load a few on the planes flowing through the area, and on each run, let the drivers hit the poppy fields, see one....get some pratice.

    Step four, bring in a few of the small Pave-lows, with IR/Heat seaking capabilities and do some night hunting and spotting. When ever you see little heat signatures and they end some where.....WELL???

    I have further plans but need to get a beer, fill in for me....I`ll be back.
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    warpig883
    Moderator
    Posts: 972
    (11/3/01 5:42:26 pm)
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    Polish I have a question for you. In WWII The Jap Government (not the people) attacked us. We fought a war and won it. The deciding factor upon winning this war was the devastation of 2 cities by a couple big bombs. By your reasoning as I see it you say we should not attack the people only the government responsible.

    So do you think we should not have attacked the Japs with those little old bombs to end that war?

    I am pretty sure you will respond with the statement that the Taliban is not the legitimate Government of Afghanistan. Well I don't know if they are or not. What is important is the fact that they are the ones in charge and they are the government at this time. Who are we to say if they are not a legitimate government or not. Just because they are our enemy and we do not agree with anything they do? If we had gone to war with the Soviet Union during the cold war. I am sure that a large portion of the Russian Command people would not agree with the actions of their government. Does this mean that we should not be fighting them only their government? Their are Americans that do not agree with this war we are in. Should the Taliban be able to claim our democracy is not the legitimate government, such as we are doing to them. The Government of Afghanistan is not targeting only the military or our government they are targeting civilians. I do not see how you can go to war against a country but not against the people who live in it.
    I am not happy unless I am miserable

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2113
    (11/3/01 5:57:36 pm)
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    That is really an easy question to answer...who, or what attacked Pearl?

    THE JAPANESE NAVY.

    Who or what attacked the Phillipines?

    THE JAPANESE ARMY.

    Who declared war on us on Dec. 8th? GERMANY.

    It really was pretty simple back then, you see? And the Japanese people WERE totally involved, supporting the emperor and by extension, his government. Heck, I'll carry it one step further!

    WHY in hell did we allow the Emperor to stay in power AFTER we dropped the "two little bombs?" HE'S the one that allowed Tojo and the General Staff to start and run the war, with his blessing!

    Let's look at a better example...the Government of Yugoslavia declared alliance with Hitler. Did we attack Yugoslavia? NO...we supported the Chetniks, then later Tito, all of them Yugoslavian, because we said it was NOT a legitimate government!

    What about Vichy France? We never declared war on them, even if we DID fight them in Africa, but did we fight all FRENCHMEN when we did that? NO.


    I'll say it again...AFGHANISTAN did NOT attack us. Heck, the TALIBAN did not attack us either...Al Qiada and bib Laden attacked us...they represent NO COUNTRY or PEOPLE!

    We are attacking the Taliban ONLY because they allowed Al Qiada and bin Laden in "their" country, and refused to give him up, or condemn his actions.

    Since we never even recognized them as the government of Afghanistan, how could we even "Declare War" on them???




    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    warpig883
    Moderator
    Posts: 976
    (11/3/01 6:03:18 pm)
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    I think the Taliban and Bin Laden are hand in hand as the government in place.

    You are correct the Jap Navy did attack us and we ended the war by causing total devastation and death on civilian cities. Which goes against everything you are saying.
    I am not happy unless I am miserable

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2115
    (11/3/01 6:34:45 pm)
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    It really doesn't Pig, if you think it through...

    Did those planes that crashed the WTC have national markings on them?

    Did we trace them to ANY government. or any of the perps as representative of any government? No.

    Whether you or I "beleive" they were working hand in hand not only flies against all evidence, it's a leap at BEST.

    THAT is the flaw in your argument.

    IF the Taliban had declared war on us, sanctioned the attack in any way, it would be different.

    They didn't. A rich megolomaniac ex-patriate Arab without a country did it.

    This IS a "new" war, Pig. It IS frustrating, but you CANNOT compare it to WWII no matter how hard we try.


    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    warpig883
    Moderator
    Posts: 982
    (11/3/01 6:43:59 pm)
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    Well, we have both made comparisons to WWII.

    Those planes did not have the enemies markings because the enemy used our own equipment to kill us with. The tool used does not take away the identity of who used it.

    Ifwe did not trace the plane crashes to anyone then why in the heck are we in Afghanistan?

    I was under the impression that our leasdership also believes the Taliban and Bin Laden are hand in hand.

    By protecting and giving shelter and aid to Bin laden the Taliban are sanctioning his actions.

    I really do think/believe the Taliban are guilty as hell. Why are we attacking them? Because they are in cahoots with the bad guy. Do you really think the Taliban would let Bin Laden operate his organization in their country if they did not want it?
    I am not happy unless I am miserable

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2116
    (11/4/01 12:54:26 am)
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    I'll say it again...AFGHANISTAN did not attack us. You keep making that leap. Not the Afghan Navy, Army, or Air Force. Not even an Afghan CITIZEN. NO Afghan ordered the attack, or even will profit from it. A "stateless" group of "criminals" did, and would.

    The Japanese people were working to produce, and supply food, arms, equipment to the Japanese Army and Navy to the end. Ditto the Germans...it was all-out war, the likes of which were never seen before, and probably will never be seen again. And the Military was carrying out the direct orders of the Emperor, through his Ministers.

    That IS the bottom line. And that makes ALL the difference in international Law, and is why this war is "Undeclared..." We have no PROOF the Taliban or Afghanistan is behind it, in fact we have evidence to the contrary.

    Bin Laden is paying his way, and probably is the Talibans number two source of income. And since Al Qiada probably protects the poppy fields, probably is involved with number one.

    But, no matter, the Taliban did not attack us either, so whether they are or are NOT hand in hand with Trash Bin is irrelevent.

    They refused to turn him over, so we are bringing them down. All the other stuff, the fact they are illigitimate, the fact the Afghan people are oppressed and starving, just adds icing to the cake.

    We do NOT want to "occupy" Afghanistan for 50 or 60 years like we did Germany. or even the 20 or so years we did Japan.

    This has more parallels to the drug war in South America than any "real" war in our history. Many of the South and Central American governments are or were in cahoots with the drug lords...but do we declare war on them, and kill Columbian peasant farmers because some of their own government is corrupt and on the take at worst, or cowed and afraid to act at best? No...we go after the criminal drug lords, we do the best we can while applying diplomatic and other pressure to "fix" the governments...


    berto64
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 117
    (11/4/01 1:20:29 am)
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    Fellers, I think you can quit hitting that horse. I honestly believe that it is dead.

    berto
    Endeaver to Persevere

    A Professional
    Member
    Posts: 24
    (11/4/01 1:33:43 am)
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    Yes, the U.S. knew about Afghanistans corrupt government for quite sometime. Only since 9-11 has Afghanistan become a popular issue. Now we are given the chance to free the Afhgan people, and put the Northern Alliance "back" in charge, as the TRUE and JUST leaders. Before it wouldn't be "politically" right for us to intervene without a good reason.


    warpig883
    Moderator
    Posts: 990
    (11/4/01 5:53:13 am)
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    Polish I will let it lie and will try not to comment any more other than to say I don't agree with the posistion you have taken concerning the Taliban.

    A Professional
    The Northern Alliance is not the true and just government of Afghanistan. They are also a bunch of murdering thugs who the people do not want in charge. They just happen to be the only other game in town at the moment.
    I am not happy unless I am miserable

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2117
    (11/4/01 6:57:47 am)
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    One more time, then I promise I'll quit...far be it from me missing a chance to kick that old horse when he's down!

    Another parallel may be Panama and Grenada...we went in, fought only those Panamanian Army units that fought back, captured Noriega, who we SUPPORTED in power, because we had evidence he was a drug criminal. We did NOT fight the Panamanian people.

    Grenada involved overthrowing a government that was threatening American citizens, and cozying up to the Cubans, i.e., the Russians, and building an airfield capable of handling Russian Heavy Bombers...again, we did not fight the Grenadan people, just their government.

    Now I don't know if the Northern Alliance is any better than the Taliban, but from what I know it consists mainly of Afghanis...the Taliban consists mainly of non-Afghans..the "movement" is originally from Pakistan.

    And the women can go to school and not wear veils, so it's a start...



    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2707
    (11/4/01 11:29:32 am)
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    Have you seen some of those women???? Those veils are for a reason, lets not go that far..... PLEASE!
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 2648
    (11/4/01 9:24:06 pm)
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    I'm Gonna Tell All The Kids At School Just How
    All Of You Are Behaving!
     
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