The Firearms Forum banner
1 - 20 of 91 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've finally come to determine that I just anticipate and flinch way too much with any small gun chambered in anything larger than 22lr. And I've tried them all!

Part of it is definitely that I pocket carry. This means that any carry pistol I have is a micro gun, or mouse gun, or whatever you want to call it. With any round worth having for self defense those guns just aren't easily controllable and that causes me to anticipate and overreact/ flinch. Another part is those garbage DA triggers they always have. They take too long and are never very smooth. I've tried LC9/LCP with upgraded trigger, Bodyguard, Diamondbacks, Nano, and Seacamp, all too small for 380 or more. I even tried a Beretta 850 in 25 acp, and I regret letting go of it because it was perfect, but I was convinced by others that the round was worthless and good luck finding anywhere to buy them other than online and for a fortune. Now I know enough to know any round that can be shot with accuracy is better than another that can't, no matter the size.

Currently I'm carrying the Kahr CW380. And really that's only because it was the smallest I could find at the time with a half way decent trigger. But still, I jerk with anticipation and the recoil causes me to have to regrip on each shot which I do not like.

So now I'm thinking 22. There's the LCP II which I've seen good reviews on. I've heard the trigger is better. There's the Beretta Bobcat getting me back to the perfect trigger set up of DA/SA. Anything else I should consider.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Welcome to the forum. If you are carrying something you aren't comfortable in shooting you are wise to look for another choice. Just those mini seconds of anticipation before you pull the trigger under stress could have a bad result.
I have an LCP in .380 which I handle quite well. My son has two LCP ll's. A 9 mm. which is his pocket carry gun and a .22 he just plays with. It's not terribly accurate but at short range would be effective. It has never misfired or jammed.
We have both said if he ever had to use it he'd empty it to be sure he did the job he had to do.
 

·
GUNZILLA
Joined
·
8,994 Posts
The pattern I see for your flinching is that you seem to just stick to mouse guns. Mouse guns depending on individual's skill and caliber size just don't make a good recipe unless you are willing to spend the time, effort, and cost to practice frequently. I'm used to carrying full size guns from 1911's to revolver for .357 magnum, and none of them cause me to flinch.

Maybe you should consider a larger heavier gun where the caliber is centerfire but still very manageable that reduces flinching, at least in .380 and/or 9mm. Your life is worth more, than having to carry a mouse gun because you want to be comfortable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The pattern I see for your flinching is that you seem to just stick to mouse guns. Mouse guns depending on individual's skill and caliber size just don't make a good recipe unless you are willing to spend the time, effort, and cost to practice frequently. I'm used to carrying full size guns from 1911's to revolver for .357 magnum, and none of them cause me to flinch.

Maybe you should consider a larger heavier gun where the caliber is centerfire but still very manageable that reduces flinching, at least in .380 and/or 9mm. Your life is worth more, than having to carry a mouse gun because you want to be comfortable.
I haven't the time to practice more than once or twice a year. I have heavier guns in larger chamberings that I shoot fine, but are not viable options for carry. I couldn't disagree more with your conclusion, because a gun that's not comfortable to carry will not be carried and I've already addressed the concept that any gun carried is better than the one left at home.

Nope I will not carry at the sacrifice of comfort and because of that I can only pocket carry. Because of this I can only do small guns. This is exactly why I've determined I need a smaller caliber with less recoil and a better trigger system with less travel to compensate for anticipation flinch. Hence me being here.

No, the 22 is the right round for sure, I'm just trying to determine the right gun. I'm picking up a bobcat I ordered today and will try the LCP lite while I'm there to see if it might be a better option. I was just hoping maybe they're was a gun I might be missing in my consideration, but I'm pretty confident now, after talking it out here, that the Bobcat was the correct choice.

Have you tried a High Standard 22WMR 2 shot derringer?
Something to consider.
Also, I agree that the .25 auto is nothing to sneeze at. Especially a reliable Beretta. :)
Actually I think the 25 is rather worthless. A slow donkey of a round that is tiny. Even the 22lr is usually larger grain and higher velocity. So while I loved that gun, the round really just wasn't a wise choice. I know the Bobcat is a little bigger, but still small enough to be a great little pocket piece and same platform so I'll be happy with it. I might try to find another 850 though, just for fun the very few times I have to go enjoy shooting.
 

·
440
Joined
·
13,554 Posts
It seems to you have already figured it out. You need to practice, practice, practice till you KNOW what's going to happen when you pull that trigger. Right now you are anticipating what's going to happen and it catches you a bit off guard. After you've shot a few thousand times it will become a natural thing for you. Practice with several calibers till you find the one you feel most comfortable with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
First off let me say I like Ruger's. The .22 LCP as a carry gun? No. Not enough penetration from the short barrel, only accurate enough for very close work, and too many malfunctions with it usually ammunition related, but still. If you are sold on the .22 LR round I would look at a 6 or 9 shot revolver. My little LCP II is reliable but it's in .380. The recoil is sharp, so that may rule it out for you.
Air gun Trigger Wood Gun barrel Gun accessory
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
747 Posts
In small 22 pistol the Beretta Bobcat is the best. The problem is keeping them. Always family or friend crying till you let them have it. I found them dependable and they have practical accuracy. Not finicky on ammo. The Bobcat shoots better and is more dependable than many other 22s on the 32 size frame. At 20’ it shot minute of beer can.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,473 Posts
Given your inability to practice which in itself is dangerous I personally would choose a DA revolver. On the off chance it goes click and not bang I doubt very much you’ll have the presence of mind to clear a semi-auto in a timely manner and with a revolver all you have to do is pull the trigger again and you’re back in business.

“No man has time for everything but every man has time for the things they consider most important.” Rev F.A. Hobson
 

·
GUNZILLA
Joined
·
8,994 Posts
I haven't the time to practice more than once or twice a year. I have heavier guns in larger chamberings that I shoot fine, but are not viable options for carry. I couldn't disagree more with your conclusion, because a gun that's not comfortable to carry will not be carried and I've already addressed the concept that any gun carried is better than the one left at home.

Nope I will not carry at the sacrifice of comfort and because of that I can only pocket carry. Because of this I can only do small guns. This is exactly why I've determined I need a smaller caliber with less recoil and a better trigger system with less travel to compensate for anticipation flinch. Hence me being here.

No, the 22 is the right round for sure, I'm just trying to determine the right gun. I'm picking up a bobcat I ordered today and will try the LCP lite while I'm there to see if it might be a better option. I was just hoping maybe they're was a gun I might be missing in my consideration, but I'm pretty confident now, after talking it out here, that the Bobcat was the correct choice.
I can respect your decision and I myself have firmly stood behind the 22 cal for SD. But I am confident in my abilities and in my training. I personally own a couple of the NAA revolvers in 22lr and 22 magnum. My experience has shown that the 22 magnum is also a devastating caliber but in my practice in shooting this round out of the NAA revolver, at 10 yards it was not as accurate as the 22lr. Possibly the short barrel did not stabilize the 22 magnum as well, but was able at 5 yards to get all 5 shots on target.

I own this particular model, though it may look bulky it is very light weight and with the 22lr I was able to put a fist size group center mass on the target at 10 yards. The grip itself will accommodate your hold hand and the gun folds into the grip which acts as a holster and you can clip it to your front pant pocket. I also would recommend that you buy premium rounds like eley, lapua and such as there is a lesser chance of having a misfire and also would not recommend subsonic sounds on semi-auto handguns as they may not cycle the action. Good luck on your search.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,857 Posts
Sounds like you need something based off the 1911 style and is a single action only trigger or a double action/single action revolver. Get a steel gun instead of plastic and recoil wont be as big of an issue. Semi Auto with a first round double and the rest single action aren't too bad but your first shot should be on target.

DAO is not for everyone (especially me). I wont waste my money on one but some like and swear by them. I have several DA/SA revolvers that I've had for decades and probaby haven't fired 10 rounds in DA mode in all of them put tegether and none of those hit what was aimed at.

I'd pick a SAA any day over a DAO revolver or semi but thats just me.

I wont carry a self defense rimfire 22 handgun. Centerfire only and in 32 or larger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,636 Posts
I feel for you. The only .22lr I have carried for personal protection (in a holster) is the Browning Buckmark Micro. Very, very accurate. I know that I can hit "on target," with it.

Too big, (even the Micro) for pocket carry.

My smallest regular carry's are the Kel-Tec P11, (9mm) the 642 Airweight (.38 Special) and the Bersa Thunder (.380.)

Next step up, a Taurus 740 Slim. (7 rounds of .40 cal) [resides in the Jeep, seat cover pouch, between my legs.] I will state however, that I am not recoil averse.

I completely agree with you though Sir, a Hit with a .22 lr, beats a miss with a .44 magnum.

I would suggest that you look @ a quality .38 Special revolver. My primary carry (nowadays) is the .38 Special S&W 642 Airweight.


*Practice, practice, practice, will get you over the flinch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,168 Posts
The .22 LR is not more powerful than the .25 out of a -2" barrel, nor is it as reliable. Selling the Beretta 950 (not 850) was your first mistake. They are available on the auction sites.
You might very well look at the Keltec P32. The D/A only trigger is very good, recoil is negligible, 8 shots, extremely lightweight, very flat, and in a better caliber than any .22 or .25. It's what I pocket carry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
I feel for you. The only .22lr I have carried for personal protection (in a holster) is the Browning Buckmark Micro. Very, very accurate. I know that I can hit "on target," with it.

Too big, (even the Micro) for pocket carry.

My smallest regular carry's are the Kel-Tec P11, (9mm) the 642 Airweight (.38 Special) and the Bersa Thunder (.380.)

Next step up, a Taurus 740 Slim. (7 rounds of .40 cal) [resides in the Jeep, seat cover pouch, between my legs.] I will state however, that I am not recoil averse.

I completely agree with you though Sir, a Hit with a .22 lr, beats a miss with a .44 magnum.

I would suggest that you look @ a quality .38 Special revolver. My primary carry (nowadays) is the .38 Special S&W 642 Airweight.


*Practice, practice, practice, will get you over the flinch.
I carried a Chief Special 38 in a pocket holster that didn't even "print" in jeans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
432 Posts
Take a hard look at Smith & Wesson 317 Air-Lite , J-frame light weight , 8 shot , 22 LR .
It comes in 2" fixed sight or 3" adjustable rear / Hi-Viz front . I drop the 3" adjustable sighted model in my pants or coat pocket . Since I can hit with it I don't feel unarmed and keep it loaded with CCI Stinger HP's .
The 2" fixed sight model is even smaller and lighter and 8 shots is decent number of rounds .
Carry what you can hit with ... a 22 LR will get the job done ...
I can tell you from experience , getting shot with a 22 LR HP will mess up your day big time !
Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,636 Posts
If you think that a .22 lr is not "potent enough," shoot a 2×4 with a hollow point.

Look at what It will do. Yep, pretty darn "potent."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Don't get me wrong here folks, I'm not delusional, I know the round is severely underpowered for self defense from a handgun length barrel, by comparison. But as I clearly stated, it's better than nothing and right now I fear such a scenario where deployment of a gun is needed with my Kahr 380, would have me shanking bullets every which way but on target, and that's worse than not having one at all. Or I'd drop it from the recoil in a high stress situation. I'm not getting rid of my Kahr, I'll keep practicing with it in hopes that maybe I can get competent with it some day.

The .22 LR is not more powerful than the .25 out of a -2" barrel, nor is it as reliable. Selling the Beretta 950 (not 850) was your first mistake. They are available on the auction sites.
You might very well look at the Keltec P32. The D/A only trigger is very good, recoil is negligible, 8 shots, extremely lightweight, very flat, and in a better caliber than any .22 or .25. It's what I pocket carry.
Yes it is. Good 22lr high velocity ammo can run 40gr over 1k fps and penetrate 10-12". 25acp is only about 850fps with 35gr and lucky to penetrate 8". I of course would prefer reliability of center fire, but quality ammo and a quality gun can make up for that.
 
1 - 20 of 91 Posts
Top