If you're 100% sure on that neck thickness, you're just about at the end of the safe limit before the necks need turned. In fact, I would turn them now if you're certain they're .0155. I just measured a few of mine and none are thicker than .013, with the majority being .012. Hornadys data looks really light at the minimum charge. Hodgdons data is 35.3@minimum for a tsx, so hornadys 29.5@minimum doesn't look good to me. The shoulder angle of the 243 will cause a lot of carbon being blown back into the chamber if the pressure isn't high enough for a proper seal.

My conclusions, triple check that neck thickness and turn necks to .012" if they're .0155".
I personally wouldn't use the hornady data. I would use hodgdon data for the tsx. Another note....hodgdon doesn't list 4320 for a 90gr bullet, may not be the best choice for 85-87gr bullets??
Perhaps a different powder, alliant RL-17,IMR4350, IMR4064 or my personal favorite for 87gr, hodgdon hybrid 100V.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of handloading....

Firpo I wish I had something to tell you. As I mentioned before my experience with the 243 is very limited...too new a cartridge for me..lol! Something does seem amiss somewhere. Bolt opening and extraction should not be that difficult. From your description it is a pressure issue. As you've learned just because two bullets from different manufacturers weigh the same doesn't necessarily mean they are the same. I'm confident you'll figure it out. It's part of our handloading education....

 

Firpo, the Sierra book calls for a COAL of 2.625" for that bullet; the charge data for your powder matches the book, except that Sierra recommends a maximum of 40.5 gr. You definitely should not be having this issue! I've been shooting .243 since the early '70s and never had a problem reloading them. I did get some that seemed too hot, despite having a charge well below maximum, as evidenced by blown out primers, but that was using range brass which may have had primer pockets that were too worn. Using new brass eliminated the problem.

Good luck!

 

Ahhhhh! Too much brass laying around. The new cases I loaded are .012-.0135. I'm placing the end of the calipers in the neck about 1/8"+ if that's how it's done. I measured the once fired Federal cases, the factory ammo I had, and using the same method they're the ones coming in at .0155 now too. I still have some of the new, unfired brass I bought (PPU brand) and I'm getting .0110-.0120". If that's the case then wall thickness may not be my problem.
Of all the powders you listed I only have IMR4350 and I'll take your and Jim's advice and use that on a box and see what happens.

Thank You

 

You also touched on another important issue. Bullets differ dimensionally in many ways, and one of those is the location of the ogive in relationship to the tip.

In determining the COAL for a repeating rifle with a magazine, there are in my opinion two critical measurements, both are related to bullet seating depth. The first is the overall measurement from the cartridge base to the tip of the bullet. The critical issue here is that the loaded cartridge must fit into the magazine and feed absolutely reliably into the action. The second measurement is more complicated, it is the distance from the ogive of the bullet to the lands of the rifling. All rifles have different length throats. This becomes very critical when attempting to seat bullets close to the lands, or in rifles with very short throats, or when seating very long spritzer bullets. You mentioned using a sharpie, and that method is helpful but not very precise. I would recommend the Hornaday OAL Gauge kit, IMO it's $30 well spent if you're concerned about precise measurements from the ogive.

 

Thanks JW. Just finished one box I loaded with IMR4350 so we'll see how it goes. One thing crossed my mind, that being this is the first time I used the Lee FCD and I just wonder if I may have been overdoing it with the crimp. Hmmmmm????? In the past I've always used the RCBS seating die and it's pretty obvious (by feel) when you've overdone it but I'm not familiar enough with the Lee. I reset the die, adjusting it just past 1/8 turn after it engaged the round. I wonder how my neighbors would feel if I cracked off a couple ?

 

If you pulled a bullet when you ejected a loaded round, you sure didn't overdo the crimp. It's pretty hard to over crimp using the Lee FCD.
I use the FCD in my .45 colt, .454 Casull and .41 magnum. Follow the directions with the die and you'll be fine.

 

The easiest way to check neck thickness is to load a round and measure the OD then subtract the bullet diameter.
I didn't see an ejector mark on your cases, so I don't think its a pressure issue.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm having an issue with my reloads in my .243 Savage Axis in that the cases are getting stuck in the chamber after firing. Just to refresh everyone here's what I'd loaded them with on my last attempt.

75 grain Sierra JHP
38 grains IMR4320 (Hornady manual lists 37.7-42.6 grains)
CCI 200 Primer
COL 2.615
3000fps

I have had nothing but problems getting this load worked out and would really appreciate your help. First off I didn't have a Sierra Manual to reference so I used a couple that I do for the same weight bullet. Never had an issue with this practice in the past but I'll be dipped if the bullet didn't get stuck in the riflings and when I cycled the bolt back it pulled the bullet, scattering un-burnt powder all in the chamber. Then I played the sharpie game and discovered that a COL of 2.615 is when the bullet came out clean and free of any marks. Throughout this process I learned a new word, "Ogive" as apparently while the bullet is the same weight the shape of the Sierra bullet is different causing my problem of stuck bullets.

I just checked all dimensions of my spent brass and while there are variations in case length none of them are over the 2.045" in my manuals. Just got back from the LGS and here's my plan after reading all your earlier posts. I purchased a box of Hornady 87 grain SP, bullet number 2440 which IS in my Hornady manual. I'm going to duplicate exactly their starting load using IMR4320 which as I understand it is a tried and true, medium burn rate powder and should be a good choice for .243 Win. I am going to trim all cases to 2.035" which is tenthousandths below COL spec and what I believe to be the proper measurement for trimming. I should also note that these cases were brand new, never fired (guess they're once fired now) and the neck thickness is .0155" as someone had asked me about that earlier. And yes, I did run them through my sizing die even though they were new cases .

This is going to be fun, although frustrating at times, to get this little puzzle solved. I'm also thinking about getting myself a neck sizing die as to not fully size the cases after every time they are fired. I'd read that should be something I should consider and it wouldn't be a big deal as this is my only 243..........and it just may stay that way .

Thanks All

I would use IMR 4350 or IMR 4064 instead of IMR4320. I found my loads in the Nosler, Hornady and Barnes manuals. The 2 powers I list are the only powders that work best for my rifle.

 

Thanks Slayer. I'll give them a check in the morning.

 

i would point out that there is a huge difference between the LEE Factory Crimp Dies (LEE FCD) for pistol and rifles. Lee purposely calls them both the same to increase sales of the pistol versions because reputation of the Rifle FCD was so good.

The rifle version uses a collet to close the neck of the case horizontally into the bullet. How far you screw the FCD into the press controls the amount of crimp. You can over crimp and the result of that is deforming the bullet...NOT GOOD.

The pistol version is only a regular crimping action die (case neck runs into a ledge in the die and collapses onto the bullet). The crimping force is vertical. There is NO collet and the action and the results are completely different. This pistol version is different from a crimp only die from others in that it has a sizing ring in the bottom of the die such that any over crimping that bulges the case is ironed out. This latter feature is useless if you adjust the crimping action correctly. Another sales gimmick by LEE to sell product.

I endorse the LEE FCD for rifle cartridges If you keep the collet clean and free of galling which it apparently is prone to do, in my experience. The LEE FCD for pistols is a waste of money if you careful set up the combo seating/crimping die that is usually a part of every pistol die set.

LDBennett

 

As to bullet seating depth, the book is a starting point and should be verified for every rifle you reload for. I like to put the bullet a few thousandths off the rifling for some guns. Others I check to see that the bullet is not jammed into the rifling with the book COL. My way is a bit crude but done carefully is adequate.

I stick a bullet (the exact one I intend to reload with) only part way into a sized empty case (extra long COL). With the bolt open I push it into the chamber until the bullet is just touching the rifling (don't jam it in!). I then use a cleaning rod** down the bore gently touching the bullet nose without moving the bullet. It takes two hands...one on the cartridge and one on the cleaning rod. I mark the rod at the end of the barrel. I then remove the cartridge and close the bolt. I repeat the measurement with the rod pushed against the bolt face (not the extractor or ejector!). I mark the rod again. The distance between the two marks is the Max COL the gun will handle with that bullet. You can reduce that to give your bullet a run at the rifling. On some guns I only reduce it by a couple thousands. On some, where I use one reload on several guns, I only verify the COL in the manual will not have the bullet jamming onto the rifling. But remember that if the cartridges have to fit a magazine then that may the controlling COL.

In 30 years of reloading for 30 different cartridges and many rifles I have never found a gun that would not take the manual listed COL except for one Browning BAR in 7mm Mag. It turns out the chamber missed a reaming operation at the factory and there was no cone transition from the end of the cartridge part of the camber to the rifling...just a vertical ledge. Browning got the gun back and fixed it.

LDBennett

**NOTE: I use a rod end on the cleaning rod that is flat and wide that I make from one supplied with the rod. It helps if the rod is metal and not coated as the markings are then highly visible.

 

Maybe you said it elsewhere, but did it shoot factory ammo without a problem?

 

As stated earlier, it sounds like over pressure issue.
Are you sure of the accuracy of your scale?

 

A quick recap. On this outing the loads I'd made were okay at first, then as the rifle heated up?? The cases began to stick. Within two more rounds it took a considerable amount of persuasion to open the bolt. Then I tried three Federal factory loads and they functioned perfectly so it's definitely my ammo.

On another note, I just checked neck thickness using Slayers technique and came up with a measurement of .01375".

Thanks

 

I use an RCBS 502 beam scale. Just leveled and placed a Hornady 87 grain bullet in the pan and it measured within 1/10 a grain of 87 so I think the scale is good. I appreciate all the questions.

 

The postings here indicate a very wide range of issues that you might investigate. You said you started with a 37.7 grain powder charge that was taken from a well respected manual and I didn't see any suggestion that the charge of 37.7 gr. might have been too much for your particular rifle. I've hand loaded for the 243 Winchester for a long time and haven't experienced any problems.

However, I have experienced sticky cases in other calibers and the problems have most often been solved by reducing the starting powder charge and working back up toward velocities being sought, stopping at visible or measured pressure signs on fired cases and going back down to the last charge weight that showed no pressure. If you had worked up from a lighter charge, you would have probably had pressure signs before getting to sticky cases. That's a serious and dangerous sign. Earlier signs are extremely flattened or blown primers, and bright spots on the case head.

I've often had to change to a slower burning powder to get the desired velocity. That's been particularly true in the relatively small bored 243, especially using heavier bullets. IMR 4320 has a reasonably moderate burn rate and your 75 grain bullet is sort of the jumping off point to heavier bullets in that caliber. A slower powder might provide better results.

You may eventually find it necessary to check all the other possibilities brought up here but, I would first look to the powder. Is it the right amount? Is it the best burn rate?

If I haven't put you to sleep let me suggest that bullets are not that good for use in checking your scale. A check weight is a small investment for a good cause. Bullets, especially large ones, can have significant variations in weight. Add that to scale that is weighing wrong and it can be a problem.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm having an issue with my reloads in my .243 Savage Axis in that the cases are getting stuck in the chamber after firing. Just to refresh everyone here's what I'd loaded them with on my last attempt.

75 grain Sierra JHP
38 grains IMR4320 (Hornady manual lists 37.7-42.6 grains)
CCI 200 Primer
COL 2.615
3000fps

I have had nothing but problems getting this load worked out and would really appreciate your help. First off I didn't have a Sierra Manual to reference so I used a couple that I do for the same weight bullet. Never had an issue with this practice in the past but I'll be dipped if the bullet didn't get stuck in the riflings and when I cycled the bolt back it pulled the bullet, scattering un-burnt powder all in the chamber. Then I played the sharpie game and discovered that a COL of 2.615 is when the bullet came out clean and free of any marks. Throughout this process I learned a new word, "Ogive" as apparently while the bullet is the same weight the shape of the Sierra bullet is different causing my problem of stuck bullets.

I just checked all dimensions of my spent brass and while there are variations in case length none of them are over the 2.045" in my manuals. Just got back from the LGS and here's my plan after reading all your earlier posts. I purchased a box of Hornady 87 grain SP, bullet number 2440 which IS in my Hornady manual. I'm going to duplicate exactly their starting load using IMR4320 which as I understand it is a tried and true, medium burn rate powder and should be a good choice for .243 Win. I am going to trim all cases to 2.035" which is tenthousandths below COL spec and what I believe to be the proper measurement for trimming. I should also note that these cases were brand new, never fired (guess they're once fired now) and the neck thickness is .0155" as someone had asked me about that earlier. And yes, I did run them through my sizing die even though they were new cases .

This is going to be fun, although frustrating at times, to get this little puzzle solved. I'm also thinking about getting myself a neck sizing die as to not fully size the cases after every time they are fired. I'd read that should be something I should consider and it wouldn't be a big deal as this is my only 243..........and it just may stay that way .

Thanks All

I was accused of predicting the end of the civilized world for this before, but here it goes again. New rifle brass shouldn't be sized before using. The critical head space dimensions are manufactured into the brass, to run it through a sizing die alters this dimension, and could create problems when fired.

 

Well guess I messed things up with this one. I do have 40 cases that I haven't touched yet so maybe I'll give not sizing a try. I want to thank you all for your suggestions and I'm taking them all to heart. I loaded up a box with an 87 grain Hornady bullet and used a starting load of IMR4350 so we'll see how that goes next time I get out.

I also understand using a bullet to check a scale isn't best practice but it's what I had and the fact that it was right there tells me the scale is good, that or a huge coincidence that my scale was off just enough to weigh the bullet correctly. That said I will be adding a check weight to my shopping list
Here are pictures of three cases, one with and one without flash. Let me know what signs you see of over pressure if you wouldn't mind. I see the primer is a little flat but that's about it.

Thanks all

 

Could you explain that a little more, I always resize my new brass and trim if required and have never had a problem.

 

Trying not to be dis-respectful, but I completely disagree with 'not resizing new, unfired brass'. I always size, measure and trim new unfired brass. I also take a peek at the flash hole to make sure 1.) it has one, and 2.) it is clear and drilled all of the way thru. Sometimes they are not - even from the big manufacturers.

Why would you not want to make sure the cases have the exact same neck tension on the bullet? That is why I full length size them, as well as to make sure that the case mouths are still round and not slightly crushed in from rough handling in shipment. I also check the case length, and most of the time they will need a little touch-up to get them all to exact same length.

 

Notice, most all reloading data suggest you inspect and full length resize new brass. I also anneal the new brass. I chamfer the flash holes and uniform them.

 

Got my hands on a Sierra manual and for the 75 grain bullets that I have, the powders listed that I have available are as follows:

Benchmark
H4895
H380
IMR4350
And of course the dreaded IMR4320 which will not be used.

I'm with you guys on the over pressure being my problem, what's got me puzzled is that in the Sierra manual it shows the load for IMR4320 starting at 37.5 and going up to 40.5. I thought I'd have been pretty darn safe at 38.0
I'd like to take another crack at the 75 grain Sierra bullets and of the powders I have, would you recommend any one over another? I already loaded up a box of 87 grain Hornady bullets with 41.0 of IMR4350 and thought I'd try a second load to bring with me should it cause me any problems.

Much Thanks

 

Sounds like you're having fun with this experiment. Remember that there are other factors other than the powder load that can increase pressure, including (but not limited to) over-crimping and getting too close to the lands. I would suggest not crimping, and I would stay at least 15 thousands away from the lands. You can adjust that distance once you have a safe, reliable round that's near the velocity you want. Good luck and keep after it. This is part of the fun.

 

Benchmark and 4895 are both powders I use for my accuracy and service loads in my M1A. They work well for it, but I'd suggest that you try that IMR-4350 first over the others with your bolt rifle. I'd also suggest that you begin at the beginning and work your way up to the most accurate load - as long as that bolt sticking problem goes away.

Not to insult your reloading experience, but I've found that my most accurate loads are not always on the high side. Often they may be closer to the middle of the scale in velocity. I envy you now that you are at the 'fun part' - trying out your loads and working up the most accurate load for that particular rifle. Take it slow, have fun, be safe and good luck!

 

Having used 6mm for both hunting and target shooting I must agree with Jim and that is usually you will find your best accurate loads somewhere in the middle.
I do have the odd rare exeption and that is my 243 bench rest rifle that loves very hot loads , but remember that is not the norm.