RMT, I agree with your whole post. You have to shoot alot of rounds to wear a quality firearm out, and in less it's a keepsake worn parts can be replaced. I like to shoot heavy reloads and I know there is some wear, but that's what I like to do. I own guns because I enjoy them and I maintain them like they are my treasure. Sometimes I just look at them for enjoyment. All that being said, if I'm not going to use them in the manner that pleases me, why have them?

 

+P in a 45 acp in my opinion defeats the purpose of the design of the round, to high of FPS could cause over penetration thus not giving the round enough time to properly expand. JMO though.

 

I shot some plus p ammo in my colt defender and after about 30 rounds my rear sight screw was backed out loose and ready to fall out. Could be coincidence. I dont normally use plus p ammo. I would think it would wear out recoil springs in a hurry.

 

I don't like +P ammo myself. It will take a lot of rds. to beat up a quality gun but springs need to be changed to run right. The gun was designed to shoot a certain way. Autos of any kind can mess up and usually at the wrong time. I want the gun to run as it was built to and that isn't with +P ammo. Any quality hp will do what you want it to. Stop the threat if a good hit is made.

 

An expanding bullet will expand with in the first few inches, if it is going to expand at all. What would stop this from happeing is that the Hollow Point fills with material before hitting flesh, making it act like ball ammo. Most standard HP loads for .45APC will give you some where around 12" of penetration. In my mind that's all you need. Like ka64 said, anything more and I would be concerned about over penetration. I like big heavy bullets, and I like Gold Dots!

 

I think you're okay as long as you change your recoil spring more often. I know Springfield 1911s are safe for +P, but it's kind of unnecessary since .45ACP hollow points are already an excellent stopper. But all I carry for SD rounds is Remington Golden Saber, UMC or Winchester white-box hollow points. All of which are just standard 230-gr .45ACP.

 

I only shoot plus p in firearms that are designated for it,

 

The difference in pressure from standard 45 ACP to the Plus P loads isn't that much. With .45 ACP, the standard cartridge pressure is 21,000 PSI and the SAAMI .45 ACP +P standard is 23,000 PSI. That's only a 2,000 psi increase. Most if not all pistols chambered for the .45 ACP made in the last 50 years can stand that additional pressure. The cartridge was developed over 100 years ago and a lot of improvement has been made in the metals used in modern weapons.

I would NOT recommend it in older Government Models or Model of 1911 pistols made prior to WWII. The older slides were not heat treated and are somewhat soft. You can crack them with regular ammo.

Here's a comparison:

http://www.ballistics101.com/45_acp.php

 

I've always liked 38 Super even before the ISPC shooters got interested in it.

Here is a comparison of how it compares to other common auto loading cartridges:

http://38super.net/Pages/comparisons.html

Not trying to hijack the thread.

 

I haven't seen the need to use +P in my .45ACP pistols. My 442 is the only pistol I prefer to use a +P round.

 

I don't see the need for over pressure ammo in .45 ACP.

I generally shoot 230 grain bullets at ball velocities for self defense. I don't see need for over 850 f/s, nor do I think the lighter bullets work better.

 

What does the .45 Auto NOT do that is greatly improved by increasing pressure slightly? If the .45 Auto as-is isn't enough, go to the 10mm Auto or .45 Win Mag.

 

What does the .45 Auto NOT do that is greatly improved by increasing pressure slightly? If the .45 Auto as-is isn't enough, go to the 10mm Auto or .45 Win Mag.

The only thing I can think of is more penetration. What would the recoil be like between .45 ACP +P and 10mm Auto though? I always thought 10mm and .40 had a snappier, more upward recoil compared to .45.

 

up the recoil spring a tad and use shock-buffs... but I don't ever use +P, no need and ammo is expensive enough, +P is a good excuse to slap another buck or two onto the price of a box of ammo. I only use 230gn, never lighter and drive 'em at about 800 fps. It's a proven man-stopper.

Anyone else use shock-buffs? been using the blue Wilson's Combat ones, came with a recoil spring kit I got for my commander build. Don't remember what brand I used before that, they are red. I've never had an issue with 'em and they supposedly save the frame/slide.

 

only PP i have is in a taurus 38 snub my wife carries. she practices with regular 38 for proficiency, then shoots a few rounds of PP to get the feel , for when needed. stays loaded with PP for carry. havn't shot a half box thru the gun so it's nice and tight.

soundguy

 

What does the .45 Auto NOT do that is greatly improved by increasing pressure slightly? If the .45 Auto as-is isn't enough, go to the 10mm Auto or .45 Win Mag.

go with the win mag, on second thought, dont!

 

it's spendy!

 

I have Federal LE Tactical Bonded 230gr. +P HP for Personal Protection use in my Defender. SO FAR no problems,BUT the gun has not had 300 rounds through it yet. For practice i use 185gr TCJ and 185gr JHP

 

I shoot 230 Gr. Hardball, why, because it is easier to reload, and it is accurate. however I also shoot 180 gr. 200 gr. and what ever. In my shade tree mind ( and I'm not an expert at anything but getting to the kitchen table, but I have been shooting the 1911 for over 50 years ) the 1911 will shoot safely any cartridge that is marked .45 ACP. Standard or +P. In this case ( now mind you, this is just my opinion and I have others ) this is much a do about nothing. The 1911 platform is strong and is designed to digest any standard cartridge that will fit into the magazine. ( including +P ). I feel the 230 Gr. hardball is sufficient for the job at hand, but if someone wants to shoot 180Gr +P, so be it, I don't believe it will harm any 1911 platform that is American made. I do use a 18 LB spring, but other wise most of my shooting guns are standard, out of the box. Well, almost standard, I do tweek them, and like most people I have more grips than guns, some of the damn things are for looks only such as my MOP grips.

 

In Boxing they have a saying; "Speed beats power". I am not one of those that believe that. +P ammo is always loaded with lighter bullets, as far as I know. In my mind that means that you have to give up mass to get speed. I perfer mass over speed. Remember, this is why the .45ACP was developed. First there was the cartridge the military wanted to shoot, then came the gun.

 

but.. both speed and mass hit the equation for energy. both play a roll. you just have to find the right projectile makeup so that energy is expended inside the target and not overpenetrating and leaving the target before dropping it's payload.

As an example of speed vs mass... ever see the test results where they shoot a micro filament of nylon at a few feet of steel plate at hyper velocity speeds ... ie.. as fast as we can generate with 'large matter' on our planet, using superconductors.

a filament of nylon too small to be seen punched 5g bucket sized holes into things.

not much mass... plenty of speed... = plenty of energy

and no.. I'm not gonna tote a rail gun around to dupe the process..

 

I do hear ya, and thus the argument over speed vs mass. I just like big bullets!

 

I do hear ya, and thus the argument over speed vs mass. I just like big bullets!

I for sure do too!

I for some reason like those shoulder tenderizers in 375 H&H, 416rigby, and 458winmag/lott

bit and brutish. I will start reloading for 375H&H soon.. I just found some projectiles for it..and have an rcbs die set. nada on the two other I mentioned ( 3 really )

 

Why would you need extra power for a round that goes down range like a freight train and already does great damage to the human body?

If you're looking for greater effective distance, switch to a rifle and put your side arm away. :dontknow:

 

Why would you need extra power for a round that goes down range like a freight train and already does great damage to the human body?

If you're looking for greater effective distance, switch to a rifle and put your side arm away. :dontknow:

Cuze we can.