H&R Knife Pistol with Police Hammer (2)

It is better with photo...I try again !

 

Yes, your H&R is quite a rarity. It is a Model 2 officially named by H&R as the "Automatic Bayonet Revolver". My source information estimates that there were only around 2000 made 1901-1917. The patented safety style hammer probably makes it even more scarce.
If you have access to a Flaydermen's Guide it is listed as item 5I-067. my older copy shows the value range as VG-$575, Exc.-$1,450. (My book is a 9th edition from 2007, so values will have changed, I just don't know by how much.)

Nice piece!!

Dean

 

V34,
Welcome to the forum.
I've seen probably 20 or so examples of the "KNIFE MODEL AUTO EJECTOR" (2nd Model 1901 - 1904; 3rd Model 1905 - circa 1917), own two examples, BUT I've never seen one with the "Safety Hammer", making it a "POLICE KNIFE MODEL".
With the cartridge stamping on the left side of the barrel, it is a 3rd Model and with that set of patent dates it is a 1st Variation made between 1905 and 1908. The serial number in the 135K range, indicates to me it was made late in the variation series, probably 1908.
As to RETAIL value: in 60% condition, a "regular" KNIFE MODEL would be worth between $600 and $650, to a collector. I've never seen one with the SAFETY HAMMER, as I stated above, so don't have a clear idea of the RETAIL value of one in that configuration. Purely guessing that the hammer would add a considerable bit to the collector interest, $100 - $200 maybe more??? Very nice find, thanks for posting.
May I have your permission to add your picture to my research files?

 

Dear Sirs,

Thank you very much for your answers. Could you named this one "H&R police Automatic Ejecting Knife pistol" ? Mr Hauff, No problem to give you some others photos of the beast...tell me what sort of details you would like. I could try to make the best photo for your file.

On the about 2000 ex. produced do you know how were in 32 cal.? I have read that in 1902 H&R catalog they said that only the 38 cal. was produced.

Thanks again to you.

Bart.

 

Bart and Jim,
I missed that it was in .32 caliber.....
That puts it way out of my range of research. I was just going by Flayderman where it says .38 caliber only. .32 has got to be a lot scarcer.

 

Bart,
You're welcome. Glad to help out.
A picture of the right side, pic of the serial number and a close-up of the left side of the Safety hammer should do it. Thanks in advance.
Bart AND deadin,
It appears that the .32 cal was introduced sometime in the 19teens. Not many are seen, as you noted - they are scarce, I have no idea how many were made in .32. Also scarce is an example with a blued finish.
Here's a pic of a doubly scarce piece - blue .32:

And here's one with English proof marks:

 

These are cool!

 

Dear Mr Hauff,

I give you some photos of the Police Knife Pistol. I hope that you will be enjoyed with them.

Next to read you.

Sincerely.

Bart

 

V34,
Thank you for posting those fine pictures. I am very happy to have them and your permission to include them in my files. I find it very exciting to come across previously unknown items of interest such as yours. Thanks again.
If you don't mind me asking, from where are you posting?

 

Dear M. Hauff,

I'm very happy that the photos enjoyed you. This gun is in very attic condition... I live in France. I love western american revolvers (the most beautiful ones inspite of me) and in the past I have had a lot of them especially civil war ones. A lot were sold in france during 1870 franco prussian war...
Do you think that this little gun has a chance to figurate a day in an updated version of Mr Bill Goford's H&R major work ?
Hope a day you could find an ultra rare specimen of knife model : blued, police hammer and 32 caliber !!!
If you want others photos tell me what.

Thanks for your answer and I'll be glad to read you again

Bart

 

Bart,
I enjoy your unbridled enthusiasm.
It is possible that your gun can be figurated some day if the publisher decides to put out a second edition, if there is enough interest in a first edition and enough new info keeps coming in, that may happen. Bill's IVER JOHNSON book did run a 2nd (updated) Edition, so anything is possible.
Thank you for your wish that I find that Ultra Rare specimen. That would be a real heart stopper.
For now, your excellent photos are exactly what I need for my reference files. If I need more in the future, I will certainly take you up on your most generous offer.
By the way, I absolutely enjoy your use of the English language. It is a pleasure to read.
I hope to read you also again in the near future.
Thanks for thanking.
Jim (no need for formalities...)

 

Jim, I'll bet it doesn't get any better for you, than to be involved in threads like this.
Even a few crazy H&R lovers in France!!:thumbsup:

Love those knife models too!!

 

Jim,
It works for me, but it's becomming, nearly a full time job, merely keeping up with the posts on all the different sites. I'll bet Jim K can "roger that".

 

Jim,
I hear you.
Good thing it pays so well, right?
Thanks for all you do for us!!
Probably the only pay you are going to receive!
Jim

 

I have posted this image in the past, but in case someone has not seen it:

Regarding France; I read in an reprinted H&R calalog that the knife model was originaly considered an export model by H&R. If so, this might explain why there are some variations we don't see all that often.

 

Mr Hauff, 45Auto,

Thanks for posting. Perhaps a last question. Considering H&R knife pistols do you think version like mine is a standart configuration of the H&R catalog (may be a special export configuration !) or an option or an individual special order ? I never see H&R catalog reprint of the period but I presume it could be rather a special order...

Just a last thing I'm crazy about 45Auto specimen of standard Auto Ejecting model on the picture : 2nd model, 38 cal, blued and 5' barrel...the most balanced variant of the model for me.

Thanks for all these posts. Next to read you again.

Bart

 

Greg,
Good info from that H&R Catalogue. I've not heard that before - the export explanation - although I've heard (e.g. the piece I have with the Brit. markings) that many were purchased in Europe, many by Military officers who were expected to provide their own sidearms. ????always something new coming up?????? Nice picture!
Is there a suggested retail price in the catalogue?

Bart,
Purely from my personal experience - I've seen a few dozen of these knife guns here in the US - your piece with the POLICE/SAFETY HAMMER is the first of its kind that I have experience with. IF, that configuration were a "standard" for export - then possibly others (maybe many others) exist in the foreign markets - and are not seen here in the USofA. As a "special order" item - that too has possibilities. H&R was known to make special order pieces of several of their "standard" models, but I don't know the frequency of such orders. I've been doing this H&R thing (collecting and researching) for a mere 15 years, this October (checked back in my records to see first purchases) and therefore, have seen many of the common guns, fewer of the less common guns and recently a handfull of obscure and uncatalogued guns. There is MUCH more to learn and postings such as yours, helps expand my poor body of knowledge.
I agree that the 5" barrel Auto Ejecting piece is almost perfect for that type of gun.

 

Bart and Jim,

Thank you, and I agree regarding the 5 inch model, it's an attractive old revolver.

http://www.cornellpubs.com/

The H&R catalogue reprint I mentioned above came from Cornell Publishing. I think the info regarding the knife model was in the 1906 catalogue, but I'm not sure right now and all of my catalogues are packed away at the moment.

Best regards,
Greg

 

Dear Jim and 45auto,

I have find this very interesting picture in an english firearms book. Do you know it ? We can see an US policeman certainly in the 20' years with in his left hand a beautiful H&R knife blued specimen !!! may be one of ours !!!

Find too a 1996 Julia Auction that said that :
488.HARRINGTON AND RICHARDSON AUTOMATIC EJECTION DOUBLE ACTION REVOLVER WITH FOLDING KNIFE ATTACHMENT. Cal. 32 S&W. Ser. 185079. Nickel plated top break revolver with 6-shot fluted cylinder and hard rubber grip, 4" round ribbed barrel with 2-1/4" double edged folding knife mounted below. CONDITION: Minor losses only to nickel plating. Trigger guard retains much original blue, grips have some damage to right side and company logo has been eradicated from left. 4-98588 CW80 (200-450) SOLD $650

Next to read you.

Bart

 

Why does he have pictures of my relatives on the wall?

 

Bart,
Thanks for the pic and the info. I personally know an H&R collector who bought a KNIFE Model in 98% Nickel plated - unfired, ANIB at an auction for $2000 last January.

Fuzebox - which side of the family?

 

I came across these pitures on the net a couple years ago I think and saved them to my PC just because I was intrigued. And without knowing a word about it I knew in a perfect world it would be in my collection.
Jim I imagine you've probably ran accross them yourself already, but just remembered so thought I'd throw'em on the screen.

 

ah there it is

 

I just thought of something, If that knife is sharpened on both sides, that would make it kind of iffie for front pocket carry ( with those old big pocket trousers ) Setting down and crossing your legs could ruin your whole day.

 

neat pic's and neat guns.