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A HATEFUL TIME AND DISGUSTING EVENT...

4.3K views 20 replies 12 participants last post by  rooter  
#1 ·
Washington, Sept. 16 1974--President Ford offered conditional amnesty today to thousands of Vietnam era draft evaders and military deserters who agree to work for up to two years in public service jobs.

"My sincere hope," he said in a statement, "is that this is a constructive step toward calmer and cooler appreciation of our individual rights and responsibilities and our common purpose as a nation whose future is always more important than its past."

In announcing his "earned re-entry" program, the President also established a nine-member Presidential clemency board to review the cases of those already convicted or punished for desertion or draft evasion.

Mr. Ford designated Charles E. Goodell, a former Republican Senator from New York and an early critic of United States involvement in the Vietnam war, as chairman of the clemency board.

Among others named to the clemency board was the Rev. Theodore M. Hesburgh, president of the University of Notre Dame, who has called for unconditional amnesty.

Effective Immediately

The amnesty program became effective immediately when President Ford signed a Presidential proclamation and two Executive orders just before noon in the Cabinet Room of the White House. Earlier, he explained details of the program to Congressional leaders of both parties. No Congressional action is needed.

In his proclamation, the President declared that "desertion in time of war is a major, serious offense," and that draft evasion "is also a serious offense." Such actions, he said, need not "be condoned."

"Yet," he continued, "reconciliation calls for an act of mercy to bind the nation's wounds and to heal the scars of divisiveness."

President Ford denied tonight at his news conference that the amnesty plan was in any substantial way linked to his unconditional pardon of former President Richard M. Nixon on Sept. 8--an action that has created widespread controversy throughout the nation.

Asked at his news conference tonight why he had granted only a conditional amnesty to draft evaders while granting a full pardon to Mr. Nixon, the President replied:

"Well, the only connection between those two cases is the effort that I made in the one to heal the wounds involving charges against Mr. Nixon and my honest and conscientious effort to heal the wounds for those who had deserted military service or dodged the draft."

Mr. Ford said that, in the case of Mr. Nixon, "you have a President who was forced to resign because of circumstances involving his Administration and he has been shamed and disgraced by that resignation."

Under the program, draft evaders or deserters who have not been convicted or punished have until next Jan. 31 to turn themselves in to the authorities, reaffirm their allegiance to the United States and agree to spend up to two years in public service jobs, such as hospital attendants or conservation.

The United States Attorney or military service head would decide the length of alternative service to be performed by each individual. The President set no minimum period of service, but he said that the maximum two-year requirement could be "reduced" for "mitigating circumstances," such as family hardship.

Placement of persons in public service jobs would be administered by the director of the Selective Service System, Byron V. Pepitone. He said today that applicants would be encouraged to find their own jobs, subject to approval by his agency.

For those already convicted or punished for desertion or draft evasion, the new Presidential clemency board will review cases on an individual basis. Priority will be given to those now in prison, and officials said that their confinement would be suspended as soon as possible.

Federal officials gave varying estimates of the number of deserters and evaders potentially eligible under the program. The estimates ranged from 28,000 to 50,000 or more.

Some officials said that 15,500 draft evaders would be eligible for clemency. Of these, 8,700 have already been convicted and 4,350 are under indictment, 4,060 are listed as fugitives, 3,000 of them in Canada. There are 130 persons now serving prison sentences for draft evasion.

Officials also said that 660 deserters were serving prison sentences or awaiting trial, and about 12,500 others were still at large, with about 1,500 of these now living in Canada.

Deputy Attorney General Laurence Silberman said today that those agreeing to participate in the plan should be prepared to serve the full 24 months of public service employment, although "mitigating circumstances" might lessen the term of service.

He said that those who failed to live up the agreement would be subject to prosecution for the original charge of draft evasion or desertion.

The clemency program would cover offenses that took place between the Senate ratification of the Gulf of Tonkin resolution on Aug. 4, 1964, and the day the last United States combat soldier left Vietnam, March 28, 1973.

Officials said that clemency would not be considered for deserters or evaders who faced other, unrelated charges.

Draft evaders would be required to "execute an agreement" acknowledging allegiance to the United States and pledging to fulfill the period of alternative service. Deserters would be required to take an oath of allegiance to the United States, as well as agreeing to fulfill the term of alternative service.

Officials estimated the cost of the program at about $2-million, most of this for processing and administrative details. The salaries for deserters or evaders would be paid by the employer.

President Ford disclosed that he was considering a "work re-entry" program for draft evaders and military deserters in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Chicago on Aug. 19.

The White House had indicated that Mr. Ford would announce the program early last week, but this was postponed in the aftermath of the widespread criticism over the President's pardon of Mr. Nixon.

President Ford's choice of Mr. Goodell as chairman of the clemency board was viewed as an effort to placate critics of the Vietnam war who have pressed for unconditional amnesty.

Mr. Goodell, 48 years old, fell from favor with the Nixon Administration because of his strong stand against the Vietnam war policies. He lost his Senate seat in 1970 to James L. Buckley, Conservative-Republican, following a campaign in which Nixon forces helped engineer Mr. Goodell's defeat.

Mr. Goodell, now a Washington lawyer, is a long-time friend of President Ford's and was part of a group of young Republicans who helped install Mr. Ford as House minority leader nearly 10 years ago.

Other members of the clemency board are as follows:

Father Hesburgh, 57, former chairman of the United States Commission on Civil Rights, who was dismissed from that post by President Nixon.

Robert H. Finch, 51, Los Angeles lawyer. He was Mr. Nixon's first Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare and later served as a counselor to Mr. Nixon.

Gen. Lewis W. Walt, 61, a retired assistant commandant of the Marine Corps. He served in World War II and in the Korean and Vietnamese wars.

Vernon E. Jordan, 39, executive director of the National Urban League, an organization concerned with the advancement of minority groups. He was a lawyer-consultant to the United States Office of Economic Opportunity.

James Maye, executive director of the Paralyzed Veterans of America.

Dr. Ralph Adams, 59, president of Troy State University in Alabama and a brigadier general in the Alabama Air National Guard.

James P. Dougovita, 28, a teaching aide for minority students at Michigan Tech University. He served in the Vietnam war and is now a captain in the Michigan National Guard.

Aida Casanas O'Connor, 52, a lawyer who is now serving as assistant counsel to the New York State Division of Housing and Community Renewal in New York City.
 
#2 ·
I'm not sure what your point is, since you did not give an opinion, only posted an article.

Here's my opinion, the US government put us into a war that we should have never been involved in. We lost the lives of 58,000 men and women, another 200,00 wounded, over 5000 had amputations, countless soldiers lived with the effects of the war for the rest of their lives. In the end we pulled out of Vietnam and the result was that S Vietnam fell to the North and China.

So, who is the criminals here, the people who chose not to go or the government who put us in their as well as the industrial military machine (which includes government, American industry and major stock holders who gained from the war, while the people at the bottom go and do the dirty work).

Now don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the draft evaders, but it was a different time. At that time we had a draft, today everyone in the military is a volunteer. I'm just trying to put this into perspective, everyone wants to point the finger at the draft evaders, when everyone should be pointing the finger at a government and military industrial machine who put us into a situation we should not have been in.

BTW, I did my time, I proudly spent 10 years in the USMC.
 
#3 ·
Some officials said that 15,500 draft evaders would be eligible for clemency. Of these, 8,700 have already been convicted and 4,350 are under indictment, 4,060 are listed as fugitives, 3,000 of them in Canada. There are 130 persons now serving prison sentences for draft evasion.

Read those numbers. No where near the hundreds of thousand that did serve, some were drafted, some of us joined. You are right, it was a different time. These men did not go to Canada, or refuse to be drafted because they thought the war was wrong. Like most of us they had no clue where Nam was, or why we were there. The only problem they had with the war was that they were afraid they would be the one that got killed, or wounded. They were cowards! Cowards that would rather go to jail, than serve with honor. They ran when duty called, while most answered that call to duty, even reluctantly, but they stood up, and were men. 10 years in the MC, and you didn't learn that governments start wars, and the soldier lays down his life for that cause!
 
#4 · (Edited)
different view from me , we had both national service and conscription here, folks where against it ( conscrition or what you call draft ) and it turned the war issue a lot here, rightly or wrongly

i joined just after VN , so grew up in the army with veterans , and thanks to a lot of tin pot actions all around the place ,post VN i got to see the many sides of the blokes

most where regular army, a few conscripts or national service who liked the life and stayed , but a lot fewer ...

i'm gonna send a book to Chief if i can get my mitt's on one , a defence study that matches my observations on PTSD and a few other stress type issues in troops , regular and conscript and national service and back ground v battle exposure

i hear they only did a few hundred copies

and from the folks i knew who went as conscripts i am sure there's more blokes with stress type issues . wether the factor of not being willing in the first place is a guilt trigger on the conscious or what

shows farm folks who volunteer have the least issues the closer to a city you raised the more likely the incidence ... to the balance fact of 68 out of a hundred , theres exceptions to every rule, but the city life is a real factor add to that the being forced to go angle on many ..

folks went willing as national duty was involved , but many would not have volunteered if they had not of been ordered .. and these folks had a higher incidence too about 74 out of a 100

and the immediate awareness of those who got to VN and got killed because they did not learn they just wanted out and so the "conscience objector" status was made and folks did a few months in a gaol ( "camp ") and get back to civil life but that was only used 40-50 times as it was a big deal back then , public shame , all that moral restraint i guess , you did your duty like it or not ..

the politics of it this side , i wont comment on ,

but think its is damaging to those who are honestly damaged just by going or doing too many tours too soon

recently i was reminded just how lucky i am in this respect

i dont have PTSD , but a lot of my mates do , some respond well to treatment , some dont ,

the harder case are folks who went when they really did not wish to go , or did 2-3 tours and here, thats a year or the job's done ..

without a break and oft time they never asked either, so burn themselves out

I personally believe in national service

and also believe not everyone is suited for front line service

and thats not a bad thing just fact or so its seeming from what i read ..
 
#5 ·
And I thank you for your 10 years of good and faithful service in the Marine Corps....Surely you know that the Seabees are as much of your service life as the Navy Hosptial Corpsman.. When I have these msg's sent to me and I choose those I decide are appropriate and interesting for all and I usually conjur up a title on my own...that's what I did for this one...as you mentioned, I offered no comments, positive or negative, even though I surely had them. During the period of 64 thru 67 I travelled extensively throughout the country...city to city, logging in at Naval and Marine Corp Reserve Training centers teaching NCB warfare and disaster recovery..from coast to coast, Alaska and Hawaii. Many times in cities like Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit and on and on, we'd have fire and police departments, civil defense, city and community planners.. Groups so radically divided in thoughts and processes that sometimes it was difficult accepting the fact that they were all Americans...It was a difficult time, as a military person, teaching civilians both the art of destruction and the finer arts of survival and recovery...Finally, when we'd conduct our strictly military training operations such as training the missile sites out in the plains states such as the BROKEN ARROW events, it was as if we were back in ranks again. Chief
 
#6 ·
Some officials said that 15,500 draft evaders would be eligible for clemency. Of these, 8,700 have already been convicted and 4,350 are under indictment, 4,060 are listed as fugitives, 3,000 of them in Canada. There are 130 persons now serving prison sentences for draft evasion.

Read those numbers. No where near the hundreds of thousand that did serve, some were drafted, some of us joined. You are right, it was a different time. These men did not go to Canada, or refuse to be drafted because they thought the war was wrong. Like most of us they had no clue where Nam was, or why we were there. The only problem they had with the war was that they were afraid they would be the one that got killed, or wounded. They were cowards! Cowards that would rather go to jail, than serve with honor. They ran when duty called, while most answered that call to duty, even reluctantly, but they stood up, and were men. 10 years in the MC, and you didn't learn that governments start wars, and the soldier lays down his life for that cause!
I don't disagree with you except your last statement. Of course I understand that, but I also grew up and realized our government is a bunch of corrupt crooks that have agendas that is not usualy good for the USA and thus we find ourselves where we are today, a broke country that has pushed all our jobs to other countries.
 
#7 ·
Some officials said that 15,500 draft evaders would be eligible for clemency. Of these, 8,700 have already been convicted and 4,350 are under indictment, 4,060 are listed as fugitives, 3,000 of them in Canada. There are 130 persons now serving prison sentences for draft evasion.

Read those numbers. No where near the hundreds of thousand that did serve, some were drafted, some of us joined. You are right, it was a different time. These men did not go to Canada, or refuse to be drafted because they thought the war was wrong. Like most of us they had no clue where Nam was, or why we were there. The only problem they had with the war was that they were afraid they would be the one that got killed, or wounded. They were cowards! Cowards that would rather go to jail, than serve with honor. They ran when duty called, while most answered that call to duty, even reluctantly, but they stood up, and were men. 10 years in the MC, and you didn't learn that governments start wars, and the soldier lays down his life for that cause!
I agree with you Carver. I was 18 when I went in and did not know a thing about Viet Nam. I had a cousin that was a draft dodger and he was a straight out chicken. There were 5 boys in my family and 4 of us went into the military during the Viet Nam war. I did not like it but that is just the way things go, and I did my job.
 
#8 ·
I was interested about the remarks posted here regarding the subject...I recalled stories on the subject about former President Bill Clinton. I went over to Google and looked at the topics listed under:
BILL CLINTON DRAFT EVASION STORY.......Yeah, there's pros and cons and most too lenghty to post here, but it will sure shine some glaring lights on the subject... Chief
 
#9 ·
yea the draft sucked, i hated getting my notice as much as the next guy did but i had signed on the line to avoid getting my choice made for me. I wont go on about hippie draft dodgers who had the lame excuse im against war. well so am i but some things you cant control. You face what has to be faced and hope you live through it . Im alive and have a great life and do my best to forget the bad parts , amnesty for them has never felt right to me. jmho Dad
 
#10 ·
I don't disagree with you except your last statement. Of course I understand that, but I also grew up and realized our government is a bunch of corrupt crooks that have agendas that is not usualy good for the USA and thus we find ourselves where we are today, a broke country that has pushed all our jobs to other countries.
It was a different time alright. Back then those of us that were 18, and eligible for the draft, did not understand a lot about our government. We were fresh out of high school, or we were working at a job because we had quit school. Our grandfathers served, our fathers served, so we served. I now know the history of Nam, and woke up many years ago to the fact that our government is "a bunch of corrupt crooks that have agendas that is not usually good for the USA and thus we find ourselves where we are today, a broke country that has pushed all our jobs to other countries". Had I known then what I know now, I probably would still have joined up.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I was in, two of my brothers were in one brother tried to get in but was 4F because of burn scars on his feet and legs. I had two cousins, one was a marine and has a purple heart with two stars to show for it and the other went to Mexico. I like them both but one I am proud of and the other not so much.

You are correct about the farm boys vs the city boys, the country boys from Nebraska, Texas, Iowa etc. had an easier time of it from the get go starting the first day of boot camp. The city boys from the south side hood in Chicago, the Bronx in New Yawk or Watts in LA just seemed to have a hard time understanding why us clod hoppers didn't fear or respect them the way they thought they deserved. Some turned out pretty good eventually but I had more people shipped out via the general discharge route or packed off to the rubber room from the big city than I ever did from the little town/farm background.
 
#12 ·
The final insult was when one of the "Dodgers" became president. Bill Clinton was worse than Jane Fonda. Clinton marched against or troops while attending Oxford in England on the American Tax dollars. He and others carried fake coffins of dead communist and threw them at the U.S. Consulate in London. It was a dark day when that POS became president.
 
#13 ·
Possibly one good thing to come of this was that it opened the door for a lot of guys who got bogus "bad paper" discharges were able to get opportunity for review and upgrade.

Don't like the term "coward" don't think it is quantifiable.

Shirkers, maybe.

They did break the law-pardon was going pretty far.

It was a tremendously devisive event in our history.

I was nutty enough to finish 2 tours even after a serious wound.

I do not much like non-vets. Something lacking.
 
#14 ·
Mike, you posted a couple of days ago and I've come back to put in my own 2 cents worth about your last statement...that being that there is something lacking in non-vets....I suppose, had I not mulled over that remark of yours as I did, I may have made the same description....it covers it for me too...something lacking.
I had 2 sons and neither of them had any inclination or desire to enter the military...often there were times when I thought, had it been compulsary military training, would they have fared better in their lives and the feelings of being Americans so blessed with our rights and freedoms. Yeah Mike, that's it...there was/is something lacking..Now I have a grandson Bryan who is serving with the Army in Afghanistan...I'm sure Bryan chose the Army for his, a bit older wife, did a tour in the Army...I couldn't win him over to joining in the Navy Seabees..Chief
PS...Mike, thank you for your service to our country.....
 
#16 ·
The best thing about "draft dodgers" is the term itself. I throw it out when discussing politics or any other type of confrontational topic. Lots of guys my age (66) need to be reminded from time to time that they let somebody else do the humping. By the way, thanks chief for the Seabee work. Your guys came through our area like tasmanian devils with hammers putting up hard back tents. Never seen faster workers in my life.
 
#17 ·
Welcome on board, MARINE!!! Now, stick around and tell us about yourself...I appreciate the kind remarks about the Seabees...Even General Westmoreland told about the Seabees when Khe Sanh was being repaired over and over!!! The difficult is done immediately and the impossible takes a bit longer....Thanks for your service...Chief



ON THIS DATE RECORDED:
1968…The An Hoa airfield upgrading project undertaken by NMCB-3 was one of the major Seabee construction assignments of the Vietnam conflict. Given an impossible deadline for the removal of the old matting and the installation of the new matting, Fleet Rates augmented the line company personnel in an attempt to meet the production schedule. Not only was the schedule met, but it was beaten! Working in two twelve-hour shifts, and being delayed by changes in plans, and two mortar attacks, the men pitched in and amazed their Marine on-lookers. The airfield closed at 1910 on 2 December, and was reopened to fixed-wing aircraft at 1330 on 8 December 1968. The end result of the efforts of NMCB-3 were a new aluminum runway, 3500 x 72 feet, turn-around areas at each end of the airstrip, and a new parking apron and taxiway. If the matting laid by the crews had been laid end to end, it would have stretched for over 35 miles, almost back to “home” in Da Nang.
…NMCB-11’s Advance Party consisting of 2 officers and 18 enlisted personnel departed the Battalion for CBC Port Hueneme via C-118 aircraft. The second increment of the Advance Party, consisting of 1 officer and 70 enlisted me followed on 28 December 1968.
…At 1740H, 7 rounds of 82mm mortar were received in the immediate vicinity of the NMCB-1 Detail Foxtrot camp site and Bridge #1. No personnel were injured and no equipment damaged
 
#18 ·
Here goes a fast summary of my Vietnam experience. Left the states Dec. 65 aboard the USNS General Gordon. Stopped off in Hawaii (and Hotel Street) just long enough to get "detained" by HASP (Hawiian Armed Services Police). After 28 days of smoking Lucky Strikes one after another and washing utilities off the fantail, we dropped off 2000 soldiers down south somewhere.
Then sailed up to Danang and offloaded using the landing craft of the day. Had to be flown over the city in choppers due to the fact that the S. Vietnamese Army and S. Vietnamese Marines were shooting it out (Theu vs. Key). Anyway, worked out of a base a few miles up the road from Dog Patch until the whole division moved up to Phubai. There we spent the remainder of my time doing patrols, ambushes, perimeter watch, and re-supplying the combined action companies south on highway 1. Went on R & R to Bangkok. My main claim to fame is being the first (along with everybody else at Danang airport) to get shelled with Russian 140 mm rockets http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p4013coll11/id/1510/rec/9
 
#19 ·
Thanks for sharing those events with us Marine...We've trod the same paths but mine at a later time...Have not heard DOGPATCH mentioned in a long time.....My second time over I was near DOGPATCH at Camp Hoover, adjoining the Freedom Hill Exchange and the base of Hill 327....I have a 3 ounce fragment of sharpnel from a 130 mm arty round that almost punched my ticket the previous year up at Dong Ha during 68 TET...Please share some of your 'POOP AND SNOOP' patrols with us...I'd gone on several with our security ....much to the entertainment of the younger troops ....they'd come back and share with the others what the old chief did or didn't do...Li'l Turds!!!! Chief
 
#20 · (Edited)
I was totally against the war. But, my family has always served when asked, and I joined the Naval Air Reserve.
I never left the country, and only did weekend warrior duty monthly with a yearly 2 week hitch. I guess you could
say I did the minimum. We were supposed to ship out three times and I was plenty worried, but we never left town.
I am not exactly proud of my service but not very ashamed either.

July 24 1969-July 25 1975.

I don't agree with amnesty, and I certainly not a hero, but I served.